Beavah Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 They were so disgusting the boys refused to use them and one the trip home had to stop at a mickey d's for them... Ah, then I reckon yeh missed an opportunity, BasementDweller. Rather than waitin' and usin' a bathroom maintained by other people, wouldn't it have been great if some fine group of young men led by an equally fine Scoutmaster asked da event staff for buckets and sponges, rolled up their sleeves, and did the hard work of maintainin' their own bathrooms for the sake of themselves and their fellow scouts? I can't help but feel that would be the better lesson. Service to our fellow scouts and da folks who put on the event and all that. Beavah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 I think Beavah is on to something with the coed idea. When I was doing some work in a remote part of Russia a while back, a building housing the ministry I was working with had one 'bathroom'. It was referred to as 'the dungeon'. A single small incandescent bulb shone in the disgusting area for hand washing. The darker 'pit' was beyond disgusting but after your eyes became accustomed to the darkness, you could see that at least the wretched hole in the floor had two carefully inlaid brass 'footprints' so it was a bit easier to line up for perfect aim while squatting. At the side, also on the floor, was a small pile of shards of pages from some Russian magazine. If you stayed for a while, you might even make out other squatting forms in even darker parts of the room. ...you didn't want to know.... There were new facilities under construction, though. Women had been hired into high positions in the ministry and they had nearly revolted....so I think Beavah's right about this. The women had a long way to go, though, because the head of the ministry still thought it was hilarious to talk about smacking them around if they got out of line. He'd say things like this in front of what was quickly becoming a female majority. I suspected that someday soon he'd never even know what hit him.... Doing business in 'the dungeon' was quite an experience. I sure wish I'd gotten a photo. But I loved that trip and I'd do it again if I had the chance. And the women...wow. Breathtakingly beautiful. Mmmmmm. Hi Vicki! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR540Beaver Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Moxie, Evidently you've never spent 10 days at a National Jamoboree have you? We actually had staff close latrine and shower facilities because the people contracted to clean them wouldn't as a result of the vandalism. We got them reopened when the boys from our council contingent took it upon themselves to go clean them and the adults stepped up to literally police them with a time limit per person and a check before and after use. Sad, but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 As a youth I was at the first Jambo at AP Hill in the early 80's. We had a portajohn in our campsite, it was never a problem. It stank, it was hot and not a nice as home. But it was never smeared with BM, it always had TP.....there was the occasional bad aim, but heck we were boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisabob Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Moxie, you (district volunteers) could announce that there will be no further camporees until or unless the units that were in attendance at this one come up with a commonly accepted policy, signed off on by all of their SPLs, on how any future vandalism of a similar sort will be handled by the units - and not by the camporee volunteer staff. Alternately, you (group of volunteers) could announce that in future you'll no longer be volunteering to run these events and a new group of volunteers (I mean, suckers) will need to be found, because you don't wish to clean up this sort of mess any more. Let it float out there for a while and see what happens next. Maybe others are willing to clean up other people's vandalism even though you aren't. (I know if I heard this, I wouldn't be volunteering to replace you, though) Of course, you have to mean it, in order to make it stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalicoPenn Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Couple of other possibilities * Each unit gets one port-o-potty in their campsite - it's their's to take care of for the weekend * Pay extra for every two hour cleaning from the service - and pass that cost along as part of the cost of the camporee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxieman Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share Posted October 4, 2011 SR540Beaver: I've never been to a US National Jambo. I've heard about the vandalism. I have been to a Canadian National Jambo with youth from 23 different countries--never had a problem with their bathrooms. I guess the scouts of other nations are better behaved. That and most other countries scouting programs are coed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortridge Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 If you want to change the boys' attitudes, a decision has to be made right then and there on the spot. There have to be immediate consequences for that kind of inexcusable behavior. Waiting until it's all over and refusing to hold future camporees won't hurt the perpetrators one bit. They clearly don't care. The only thing that will get their attention is immediate action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
le Voyageur Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Had the same problem during LDS week at a west coast summer camp....we sent them a bill for 10 000 dollars worth of damage... However,my solution would be to inform all units ahead of time that latrines would be locked down, and that they will have to pack out all waste, including urine.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR540Beaver Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Moxie, when I went in 2005 we had port-a-potties and open top showers built from 2x4's and black visqueen on concrete slabs. Just about every port-a-pottie you came across was thouroughly soaked with urine within 20 minutes of the honey truck swinging by to clean it. Not to mention they were always set out in the blazing sun. We had issues with older guys at the showers. They didn't want to take their turn and would grab a smaller kid and toss him out of the shower. Kids would also take the clothes of the person in the shower and toss them over the wall to the outside. If you didn't have a buddy with you to go find your clothes, you were sunk. We ended up having to have our older guys go to the showers and protect our younger guys. In 2010, our region hit the jackpot. We had airconditioned latrine and shower trailers. The showers were built in 18 wheeler trailers with stainless steel stalls with hot and cold running water. The latrines were smaller trailers of the construction office variety that had flush toilet stalls, sinks and mirrors. Very nicely decorated. The air conditioning was phenominal!!! There were some scheduling difficulties right off the bat because the youth had a curfew and some had waited in line for 2 hours for a shower. Some less than friendly adults would tell them it was adult shower time now, come back tomorrow......but I digress. We worked that out. The issue was kids vandelising the showers and latrines. Same as mentioned before, a kid would find an empty shower stall and someone had taken a BM in it. There were some trailers marked for just adults, Those stayed open, but the company that supplied the trailers and cleaned them each day refused to clean them or allow them to be used. They locked them. The kids had to go down the road to some common use port-a-potties if they needed to go to the bathroom. It wasn't until our council's kids stepped up to clean them that they were reopened. Adults then stepped up to police the situation. First, I know boys will be boys, but it is beyond me how and why scouts would act this way. Second, this is a known issue, why weren't the regional staff in charge of facilities set up to handle the situation? I'm hoping this is on their radar for 2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Beavah.....so what was the lesson to be taught?? Selfless service??? complaintless service???? It is one thing to maintain a kybo or portojohn for your own unit an entirely different thing for a camporee of several thousand......blood and other Body fluids, parasites, bacteria and viruses that are found in human waste, especially if one guy has projectile vomiting. I work in health care and body fluids are nothing to mess with any more. lots of nasty things can be transmitted, and some of them are now antibotic resistant now. Nope, not gonna subject my guys to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunny2862 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I realize this isn't Scouting, but, the same behaviors occur on our college campus's among our "best and brightest" from presumable "adults". The whole thing is ridiculous and belies any character we may believe is in the youth perpetrating it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beavah Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Nope, not gonna subject my guys to that. And what's the lesson then, eh? That cleaning up after ourselves and each other is somethin' that we're too good for? It should be done by lower-class hirelings? Changin' diapers is why yeh hire an immigrant nanny? What do yeh do when yeh have a lad get sick on a campout? Leave his vomit on da floor of the National Park bathroom? We pick up other people's trash in the woods even though it's inconvenient, it's gross, it's potentially "dangerous" (dependin' on how far you're willin' to stretch da notion of "danger" ). We do it not because we are da folks who left it there in the first place... but because if we walk away then we will be among the folks who left it there. Strength of character is measured by doin' more than our fair share of hard tasks, because we care more about da group, nation, God, etc. than ourselves. Boys learn that by the examples we set in small things, only later connectin' those examples with da words of the Oath and Law. So me, I'd just buy some gloves. Beavah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I sliced the heck out of my hand once on a roadside cleanup. So I turned it into a contest. The boys who collected the most garbage could each pull a stitch in a week or so. They pounced on this! They filled a couple of pickups. And I was good to my word, I cut the stitches and they got to pull them. You could hear a pin drop. We've fortunately been spared the kinds of awful messes described in this thread. I guess Southerners are more fastidious. Or more skilled with corn cobs.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR540Beaver Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Unfortunately Pack, my Jambo experiences were in the Southern Region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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