BSA a leader in Conservation Efforts

[skeptic]

In my continued perusal of older material, occasionally posted in history section, I am made aware of just how important conservation was to the program from its outset. Surely part of this had to do with Teddy Roosevelt, Seton,and Pinochet, among others.

 

So, when we have people complaining about how bad Scouts are for the camp grounds and forests, I cannot understand how narrow minded and ill informed these people really are. That is not to say that we have a small group that does not follow rules and LNT ideals. But overall, BSA is one of the best large groups, maybe the best, in this arena.

 

Thoughts?

[shortridge]

Whenever you get a large group of people on a small plot of land, that's going to have a significant impact - more so than a bunch of small groups. And the unfortunately common practice of car/trailer/plop camping, coupled with inexperienced leaders, can leave big scars.

 

The best thing we can do to encourage stewardship as an environmental ethic in our outdoor adventures is to go backpacking, and use smaller groups while we're at it.

 

 

(Skeptic - I think you mean Pinchot. Pinochet was the dictator of Chile, who lessened the impact on the environment by murdering people.)

[skeptic]

Thanks Shortridge; I did mean Pinchot, not the Chilean dictator.

 

No doubt that going backpacking in small groups is the best method; but larger groups by vehicle can still be efficient and respect the environment with a bit of effort.

 

My main point here was that from my readings, it is apparent that BSA was well out in front overall with their approach to the outdoors. In the teens they already were preaching forest management, even having a special forestry program on the east coast for a while. And many of the earliest adult leaders in the environmental/conservation movements were also very supportive of BSA.

 

[Basementdweller]

Skeptic.....it is a case of 20 great troops passing a spot and 1 troop behaving badly in the environment that ruins what the other 20 did.

 

We have all seen it.

 

Had a troop dig a fire pit in a city owned park. they filled it back in at the end of the event. Big dead grass ring a year later....we lost the right to camp in that park.

 

It is this case in back country etiquette as well.....how many times have we heard people complain about BS's Taking all space in a shelter, in correct waste disposal, peeing in the water holes. on and on.

 

How many times have you gone to a boy scout camp and your camp site has 10 spots where people had fires? I will say that this problem is better now than when in my youth.

 

Last backpacking trip, we built a fire on top of a space blanket covered with mineral dirt from an up rooted tree. never know we had a fire.

[qwazse]

There are a lot of folks out there who say we have no business bringing 11 y.o.'s into wilderness recreation areas. That's not without reason.

 

My crew was returning about an hour behind our troop's youngest patrol, and when we got to their site, near a stream crossing, I found their trash bag hanging on a tree beside the trail.

 

Fortunately, I recovered it before any other people passed by that section of trail. I zipped it, brought it home, and had it ready for an LNT discussion at the next meeting. I pointed out that there's no pride in saying 75% of our patrols were litter free.

 

Point is: that "Enabling" step that we do is not without risk to the environment. But we consider it a small risk in the process of raising adults who care about this world God gave us.

 

Other folks don't see it that way, but they haven't given me viable alternatives that will make sure these boys will protect our forests when they reach voting/driving/snowmobiling age.

[Scoutfish]

Bsement brings up a great point: 4,000 scouts could go in thjosr woods and the best CSI team might not detect a single clue. Let one scout or former scout be a careless jerk and all scouts get a bad rep.

 

I see it myself living next to a military base. 25,000 Marines ( just a random guess of a number) do awesome things for the elderly, the community, the parks, work fire and rescue on volunteer time, and all sorts of stuff.

 

Let two young new Marines fresh out of boot camp feel a little bit too proud at a bar - and all Marines are just the worst thing ever!

 

 

Then you have the extreme green environmentalists. They are the ones who will tell you that the woods would be even better if everybody including scouts just stayed out of the forests to start with.

 

Of course, I don't know how they would know if we were trhere unless they were there too!

 

Kinda like two kids at the dinner tables tattling on the other for not having their head bowed and eyes closed while saying grace.

 

Just let the little stuff slide.

 

[Mr. Boyce]

I camped out recently at a large park; I was stunned at the sheer amounts of trash "average" campers left there. Really blew the place out; ridiculous. Think: everyone wants to enjoy nature, so don't mess it up. Needless to say, I did a good patrol of my campsite when we were done and left it cleaner and nicer than when we arrived.

[Mr. Boyce]

. . . this said, I think some councils should be sure to include plenty of conservation programming. It's easy to overlook, but it really helps speak volumes for the organization.

[LNTfan]

The Boy Scouts need to "advertise" the conservation projects they do so they get the positive credit they deserve. We are woefully quiet when it comes to tooting our own horns. I am currently working with 5 Eagle Scout candidates who are involved in various projects on national forest lands. When you visit your public lands, how often do you see evidence that the bench or trail you are using came from the labor of a Boy Scout? Much of what we take for granted can be traced back to a Scout!!!

[Basementdweller]

But does advertising a good deed cheapen the deed????? This bleeds over to the thread of what do I get.

 

The reward would be publicity and recognition in the local paper or news.

 

I don't have a problem with routering into a bench "BSA Eagle Project 2011" I have a problem with a boy getting his picture in the paper with the bench or routering...."Courtesy joe Bob's Eagle project"

 

Your right that publicity is a good thing, but it must be tempered.

[SSScout]

"Everything is a test; not every test is passed"

 

This story seems appropriate to the thread...

 

2005 Jamboree. I am walking back to my campsite (Mahon) , just after lunch time. Lots of Scout folks around, coming and going. I notice, off to the side of the walkway, an area covered with lunch bags and wrappers. Looks like some group (Patrol?) had the official lunch, sat down in a rough circle, ate and just left it where they had sat. I walk over, look around, look at all the others walking by. I say out loud, "could I have a little help here?" and start picking up the trash. Immediately, a half dozen Scouts come near and start to help.

I mention that somebody forgot their Leave No Trace training. Giggles, guffaws, "hey", "Yeah", "I guess"...

In less than a minute, all the detritus is collected and in the trash can. I thank the Scouts , they say "sure", "no problem", "OK", and move on.

 

Is this the kind of thing we're talking about here?

 

[qwazse]

SSSc,

 

Aside from it being fore-country and not back-, yes.

 

Let's just call it the LNT practicum. It's the part that nobody will give a certificate for, but it's the most valuable part of the "course."

[Abel Magwitch]

 

 

http://www.washington.edu/news/archive/apps/dailyclips/scraped/PI_2009-01-29_BSA.html

 

http://blog.seattlepi.com/environment/2009/02/10/dnr-investigates-boy-scout-logging-practices/

 

http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Scouting-rife-with-cozy-ties-1298989.php/

 

"Trees cause more pollution than automobiles do."

 

"A tree is a tree. How many more do you have to look at?"

(This message has been edited by abel magwitch)

[skeptic]

While the listed articles shed light on this subject, and show some instances of questionable or likely poor decisions, they also indicate that the rank and file volunteers were often against the transactions, and in some cases led directly to their not happening. The Chicago situation is the most prominent case, as can be seen from this forum. What is not noted in regard to the Chicago outcome, possibly due to the date on the Hearst article, is that the council professionals involved were almost all replaced when National came into the conflict. If local scouters do not utilize their camps or preserves, and the upkeep becomes a lodestone on program and so on, then hard decisions need to be made. We need to do what we can to mitigate the worst of these; but sometimes it has to be due to circumstances over which we really have little control. On the other hand, National needs to look hard at the levels of compensation to some, especially at the top. They also should seriously consider finding ways to help smaller councils hold on to irreplaceable properties by subsidizing and encouraging more use of other scouts and outside organizations.

 

On the other hand, conservation includes management of resources in a mode that tries to mitigate damage or overgrowth. A recent example is the NPS beginning to "remove" forests encroaching on meadowlands in Yosemite due to policies that have stopped natural fires from doing what nature designed. Thinning of overgrowth allows other species to survive due to space and light. Removing diseased or insect filled trees reduces the stress on other trees and wildfire fuel due to dead trees that are tall torches in such instances that allow the fire to spread faster. And it is true that some land can no longer be used as it was 50 or 100 years ago. We can try to assure it is still used as parkland or open space whenever possible. Sometimes that is not a viable option, so the resources should be harvested financially.

 

It is pretty obvious to me that the first linked article is a hatchet job that was written due to our current stances on controversial PC issues.

 

No one will ever be completely satisfied with these things. Overall, BSA still has a far better record in environmental and conservation areas than most large groups.