Simply return Scouting to camping:?

[OldGreyEagle]

Kudu says

You know...(at least for outdoor boys)...a program designed to make Scouts "completely happy."

That may be the issue as simply distilled as possible.  Its not about Total Available Youth, its about Total Available Youth who are Outdoor boys (Or girls for Venturing)

And so the issue becomes do you keep a program for Outdoor Boys purely for Outdoor Boys while that demographic shrinks or do you change the proram to attract Not Outdoor Boys in the hope of exposing them to the Outdoors at least some

It is a difference of Philosophy

 

 

[Eagle92]

Back to the topic camping, going from district to unit, etc.

 

I served about 14 years on district committees in a few councils. Mostly in the role of OA A.C.A. or CA., but also as a commissioner and trainer. So I was doing a lot of outdoors stuff.

 

When I went from only being on he dist. committee, to also being a CS leader, my intention was to drop some of those district responsibilities and focus on my son and my den. However there are some challenges that prevented me from doing that, and I have been working with both. There have been times when folks have dropped the ball, and someone needed to pick it up for the good of the district. There have been times when someone with expereince needed to take over a project in order to deliver thepromise we made to the Cubs. And sometimes folks are so use to you being there, that even when you are not responsible for an event, they will still look to you for guidance.

 

As you can see, sometimes it's very hard to back away and return to just camping with a unit, whether from your own sense of responsibility to prevent seeing something important fall apart, to others looking to you for help.

 

But it is an AWESOME feeling of just being in the sidelines and having minimal to no responsibility. Back in March wife kicked me out of the house for the weekend to attend the OA Ordeal. Said I need to have some fun camping with the big guys and not the Cubs. Since few knew I was coming, my only responibility was to help with the Brotherhood Hike, and that's it. Yes I had to help out with a few last minute things that were not expected, but it was one great weekend of not being in charge.

[Eagle92]

Back to the topic camping, going from district to unit, etc.

 

I served about 14 years on district committees in a few councils. Mostly in the role of OA A.C.A. or CA., but also as a commissioner and trainer. So I was doing a lot of outdoors stuff.

 

When I went from only being on he dist. committee, to also being a CS leader, my intention was to drop some of those district responsibilities and focus on my son and my den. However there are some challenges that prevented me from doing that, and I have been working with both. There have been times when folks have dropped the ball, and someone needed to pick it up for the good of the district. There have been times when someone with expereince needed to take over a project in order to deliver thepromise we made to the Cubs. And sometimes folks are so use to you being there, that even when you are not responsible for an event, they will still look to you for guidance.

 

As you can see, sometimes it's very hard to back away and return to just camping with a unit, whether from your own sense of responsibility to prevent seeing something important fall apart, to others looking to you for help.

 

But it is an AWESOME feeling of just being in the sidelines and having minimal to no responsibility. Back in March wife kicked me out of the house for the weekend to attend the OA Ordeal. Said I need to have some fun camping with the big guys and not the Cubs. Since few knew I was coming, my only responibility was to help with the Brotherhood Hike, and that's it. Yes I had to help out with a few last minute things that were not expected, but it was one great weekend of not being in charge.

[Kudu]

OGE writes:

 

And so the issue becomes do you keep a program for Outdoor Boys purely for Outdoor Boys while that demographic shrinks...It is a difference of Philosophy

 

Philosophy, huh? Is that what it is called?

 

Certainly it would be wrong to call the "shrinking outdoor demographic" assertion anything that might be considered "anti-Scouting"!

 

But 70% of sixth-graders want to be Boy Scouts if you present Scouting as dangerous outdoor adventure!

 

That is 70% in addition to the sixth-graders who have already crossed over into Boy Scouts for other reasons.

 

So if we figure 10% are already Boy Scouts, that is a "potential" marketshare of 80%.

 

Do you suppose 80% of sixth-grade boys prefer BSA homework badges and corporate "leadership skills"?

 

"Potential" marketshare, you say. "Potential"?

 

The real question, of course, is how many parents would allow their sons to actually register in Engineer61's nightmare scenario?

 

As I pointed out in the recent "People love their National Forests" thread, the answer is 28% in addition to the boys already registered as Boy Scouts:

 

Back when I recruited in public schools at the beginning of a school year (always six months after our Council had given Webelos to Scout Crossover their best shot), I was usually able to register an additional 28% of the sixth-grade boys by presenting our program as the kind of "National Forest" adventure described in our National Charter ("Scoutcraft").

 

http://inquiry.net/adult/recruiting.htm

 

My target audience was all the boys who had dropped out of Cub Scouts (or never joined).

 

If we assume that 5% of the audience were already Boy Scouts, then 33% of the remaining parents registered their sons as Boy Scouts in my Troop without any promise of schoolwork badges, indoor citizenship, corporate "leadership skills," or "Eagle Scout" on a business resume.

 

You know: The kind of stuff that Baden-Powell told us boys hate, have always hated, and will continue to hate until the end of time.

 

If the Scouts in this "neighborhood in transition" were typical, then (using shortridge's figures) an additional two million (2,000,000) boys (now where have we seen that number before?) would become Boy Scouts if Scouting was about National Forests rather than indoor "leadership skills."

 

See TAY %:

 

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=286532

 

So the real question, OGE, is what would a flood of two million (2,000,000) outdoor "National Forest" Boy Scouts do to our program?

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net

 

 

[Stosh]

Since the 4th of July, I have spent almost as many nights in a tent than I have in my house. Unfortunately for the BSA program this has been compliments of having been relieved from my position as SM of a troop. I have always camped more than my troop and now, without the responsibility of organizing, etc. I camp, hike, kayak/canoe, more than ever. I have put over 3,000+ miles on my vehicle getting as far west as Yellowstone and as far east as Manassas VA, as far north as Lake Superior and as far south as Kentucky. I still have time for a trip to FL to kayak the Everglades yet this year. I hadn't realized until I got on the other side of the fence, how much BSA's "outdoor" program really wasn't all that much outdoors. By the time one sorts through all the "other-stuff" that doesn't leave much room to get out and have fun.

 

Stosh

[Kudu]

Stosh,

 

The District Commissioners in my old Council would have never allowed you to escape so easily!

 

In every District there are always a couple "Troops in Trouble:" Units down to six or less Scouts.

 

The trick is to avoid "Feeder Packs" like the plague. Instead use the Presentation above to rebuild a Troop by recruiting Scouts whose parents have never heard of "Eagle Scout," but are thrilled just to hear that their sons want to go camping once a month.

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

 

[OldGreyEagle]

If indeed 70% of sixth graders (not disputing the number) want to join Boy Scouts if its presented as a dangerous outdoor adventure, do we have enough adults who can present a dangerous outdoor adventure to those youth?

[Kudu]

You mean if corporate "leadership" experts stick by their pledge to never return Wood Badge to Baden-Powell's purpose: Teaching indoor volunteers how to think like outdoorsmen?

[Renax127]

Man reading about how little camping seems to be valued in Scouting anymore is sort of depressing. That's why I signed my boy up for Cubs. Heck he's just now a Wolf and has had 14 nights camping.

 

Honestly with some of the stuff I've read from national and hearing about what goes on with some troops I'm wondering if by the time he gets to the Boy Scouts it will even be worth it.

[Eagle92]

Renax,

 

YES IT IS! The key is to find a troop that your son is interested in and meets his needs.

[Stosh]

 

My former district basically has ignored me for 6 months (the troop I served was out of my district, I would travel 40 miles a week to attend meetings). My current district (the one I actually live in) has ignored me for 3 months. I am still registered as a unit commissioner and as of yet received any units to be commissioner for..... Politics is the reason I got into this situation and politics is the reason why it has stayed that way. And yes, I continue to attend roundtables, etc. and do my thing to support the district in spite of the shun. I have had numerous visits to the scout office, visited with the DE's of both districts, I've been in contact with both district commissioners, I've visited with the field executive as well as the SE. Still I haven't heard Aye, yes or no from any of them.

 

Am I paranoid or am I being black-balled after 30 years of scouting.

 

Maybe it's because of my propensity to emphasize boy-led, patrol-method that runs afoul with their thinking.

 

Until then, it's all the camping I can get in in one summer of no BSA.

 

Stosh

[Kudu]

Renax,

 

I agree with Eagle92: It's worth it.

 

Even in an adult-run Eagle Mill where all the Scouts crossed over from Cubs, about half will jump at the chance to hike at least a couple of miles with a pack on their backs IF you present it as an adventure.

 

But you have to get your outdoor training somewhere else.

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Kudu, You are correct

 

you will need to get outdoor training from some where's else, there is not enough competent outdoor types in scouting to train outdoor skills.

 

But are there enough adults who want to participate in Scouting who are willing to get the outdoor skills necessary to present Scouting as an dangerous outdoor adventure even if half of those 70% join?

[Stosh]

OGE, Kudu, and were are these rugged, outdoor individuals? Most of the leadership is training in superficial skills and then expectations to pass on in-depth knowledge on subjects that are book learned at best in the first place. It's kind of like thinking that the FC scout that has Eagle-milled his way through FC in 6 months is ready for Philmont.

 

I totally appreciate anyone stepping forward to lead in a unit regardless of their background, but if a parent takes on SM duties and has never slept in a tent until they take their BSA training, there's going to be less of an emphasis on outing than the parent that has been out in the wilds since he/she was a kid and knows nothing about the BSA program. The program one can learn, the skills and the will to use them frequently are two entirely different animals.

 

Stosh

[Eagle92]

Look for prior military, former scouts, and those with an interest in the outdoors.

 

One of the new leaders in my pack, he just turned in an application in May, is really big into the outdoors. I am now not the only one in my pack with backpacking experience and gear