the catch 22 of expected good behavior

[KC9DDI]

Look at the history of scouting Powell took ALL the boys off the streets of London no matter their backgrounds and under his guidance he had no trouble.

 

Could you share the evidence that led you to this conclusion?

 

After almost 30 years as a scout leader the young men and women who had a troubled past NEVER once caused a problem in any of my troops or crews or EVER put any of the other youth at risk. So once again you don't know squat about what you are talking about.

 

There's no logical connection between your first and second sentences. I don't know squat about the goings on in your troops and crews, but you don't know much squat about the goings on in mine. Chances are there's going to be some widely different squat going on in different people's units. Each person's unique background is going to influence their position on this point.

 

That said, I'm not so sure about an attitude where we want to preemptively decline to take on or remove a Scout from a troop based only on a suspicion that his "background" might in some way cause him to jeopardize the safety of the rest of the troop. In my opinion, and youth who is committed to actively contributing positively to the troop is welcome. But, should it at some point become clear that the Scout is no longer interested in making positive contributions to the troop, I think that there are circumstances where the troop would be justified in dismissing the Scout.

 

I very firmly believe that Scouting, despite being a fantastic program in general, is not a very effective "diversion" or "intervention" program. Not every adult is gifted with working with youth who need diversion or intervention, and I doubt that most volunteer Scouters really had that kind of work in mind when they signed up. I guess if you are skilled in that type of work, and think that combining it with Scouting is a good idea, then God speed to you, but just because you have been successful in that area does not mean, ipso facto, that the troop down the road will be as well.

 

So for me I can't think of very many situations where a Scout's behavior outside the troop would jeopardize his membership in the troop - if the Scout wants to be there, and wants to contribute positively to the troop and to his patrol, then he's always welcome as far as I'm concerned. But once he starts showing otherwise... I guess I'd rather ask the one Scout who's not buying into the program to leave the troop, rather than having several Scouts who do enjoy the program choose to leave on their own.

[Scoutfish]

Oh come on Beavah!

Haven't you ever heard a scout say :

 

" I swear it's the truth or may lighning strike me down!"

 

It was probably a thug scout!

 

 

[Scoutfish]

nyways, what my original post was "supposed" to mean was this:

 

Based on a comment within the spun posted thread, somebody said something to the effect that any scout who was not living 100% within the scout law shoul;dn't be in a unit.

 

But if the scout within a uniot are always living 100 of the scout law anyways, is the unit or it's leaders doing anything but "collecting" trophies? I mean, if all thew scouts are 100% perfect, then the leaders have nothing to contribute towards the scouts do they?

 

Basiically, all you have is an adventure or activity club without any kind of mentoring or guidance.

 

You are just babysitting?

[KC9DDI]

if all thew scouts are 100% perfect, then the leaders have nothing to contribute towards the scouts do they?

 

Seems like quite the hypothetical question! How many 100% perfect Scouts have you ever met?

[BadenP]

KC9

 

Not that I owe you any explaination but ENG61 said earlier that he will never take any high risk boy into his troop, so he has NO experience on which to base his rant or tell others it is wrong or a high risk to take a boy like that in their troops. I have a lot of experience dealing with these kids, and his so called squat is that without any first hand experience on his part he hasn't got a clue what it is like to have a kid like that and what they bring to the troop. E61, just like yourself apparently, seems to believe that a high risk youth brings gang members, drugs, booze and who knows what else to the troop and that is just plain untrue nonsense. You both can hold on to your antiquated and false premises all you want but you are both without any credibility.

[KC9DDI]

E61, just like yourself apparently, seems to believe that a high risk youth brings gang members, drugs, booze and who knows what else to the troop and that is just plain untrue nonsense.

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but I certainly don't believe that. I'm not sure how you would have gotten that impression from what I posted, but that is definitely not my position.

 

but you are both without any credibility.

 

Speaking to "credibility" -- I don't think you're wrong in your position (though I would be interested to see your answer to some of the questions I asked in my previous post to you), but I would point out that anecdote is not evidence. I too have some experience working with at-risk youth, both in the Scouting context and outside of it. You said that you have NEVER had a single problem -- I, unfortunately, cannot say that about my own experiences. So, why do you conclude that I am without credibility - because my experience has been different from yours?

 

Seeing as I agree with you in as far as I think that every youth who wants to be involved in Scouting should be given the opportunity - I just think it might be more beneficial to try to address people's concerns and misconceptions with reason rather than attacks :-)

[BadenP]

KC9

 

The attacks went both ways especially when some disagreed with the reasons given.

 

Now you can go to Lisabob's thread and pontificate even more with her extreme case that may or may not be true. The sad part is just how closed minded so many scouters are to this issue, the world is not black or white, yet so many seem to live in that premise.

[Basementdweller]

Eng isn't a leader anyhow....he is an unhappy spouse and step father to a very active mother son combo.

 

 

[KC9DDI]

Baden - again, speaking only for myself, I hope that you did not feel attacked by my posts, that wasn't my intention. And I don't think that my words could have been construed as an attack

 

I'm not so interesting in pontificating as I am in trying to figure out the basis of your position. It sounds like quite an accomplishment to work with so many high-risk youth and never have a single problem. So I'm basically just trying to track down the secret to your success, and also trying to figure out why you are questioning my credibility, as I don't believe I've posted anything dishonest or misleading in this discussion.

[qwazse]

FWIW, I've found it really important to have folks like Eng61 as well as parents from "the other side of the tracks" on committee.

 

Because when there's a discipline issue that makes it into the SM report, we need opinions from different angles to adress it. It's nice to sit in a room of concerned parents and say once, "This is how I would like us to handle this one." It's also nice to have folks collectively evaluate the situation and say (if they have to), "This one's out of your league."

 

This kind of back-and-forth is a growing process for the adults as well as the kids. Hopefully that growing is into more thoughtful and caring adults.

 

[Scoutfish]

qwazse,

 

I AGREE COMPLETELY!

 

I can sit here right now, read any combinations of threads and I will form an opinion based on how I understand or interpret it. But that understanding and interpretation is based on knowledge..it could be limited, really expanded, or just flat out misguided or wrong.

 

 

Sometimes I feel or think a certain way until I see things in another light, or as happens, - over time, my experiences show me my first thoughts were wrong or at the very least - misguided or biased.

 

I think a "melting pot" of experiences, opinions and differences leads to the best of the best programs as long as each person looks with open eyes and without prejudice towards others.

 

Well, simply put, if everybody saw everything the same way, it would be far worse than having tunnel vision!

 

 

 

[Engineer61]

Ditto from me Q!

 

Unfortunately, there are too many SM's/ASM's who believe that the Troop is their own little kingdom to run (or not run) as they see fit, and the parents who are ultimately responsible for their kids are unwelcome interference.

 

And when a kid is injured or killed, those same SM's are the first to step back and say, "that's not my fault".(This message has been edited by Engineer61)

[BadenP]

Eng61

 

Your constant doom and gloom scenarios on every thread in this forum are getting a little too repetitive, as well as being off subject, innaccurate, and just plain annoying, give it a rest already. No one cares.