the catch 22 of expected good behavior

[Scoutfish]

Okay, I am not a guidance counselor , a child developmental theropist, or behavorist.

 

But I have a kid, have been around kids and have worked with kids in one shape or another for a long time. I have also stayed in a Holiday Inn on at least 5 occasions in the last 20 years.

 

So here's the thing: I do not want to be in the pack that only takes on street thugs or be the guy who takes the meanest and toughest kids in order to work miracles on them.

 

But if our pack only accepts the perfect outstanding examples of kids...have we really done anything?

 

What I mean is this: If we expect kids who already know, and completely and totally live the scout law 100% perfectly...then what do we have to offer as a unit? What is the point of our program? What are we providing to these young men?

 

If they are already living and being the perfect scouts...why do they need us or want to be around us?

 

 

Again, I do not want a triple convicted 9 year old death row inmate( ) as a project child to work on and see if I can "fix" him, but I do not expect perfect boys who are shining examples of every scout law every day 24/7. I expect normal kids...who like us adults...need a reminder every now and then about putting our best foot forward and doing the right thing. I like to be able to teach by example and give guidance.

 

I also know that I will learn too in the process.

 

So what's your take on it? Do you expect the boys to be perfect scouts from day one?

 

[acco40]

Absolutely not. We should have expectations - but not be surprised when the Scouts don't live up 100% to those expectations.

 

Think of it this way. Should you expect your child to study for school? Of course. Would you be surprised that on occasion, his study habits were less than perfect?

[Eagle92]

My philosophy is to work with them until they start causing problems for others to the point other folks are leaving en masse because of one scout. And I don't mean your typical minor league problem but serious ones.

 

As for the 9 year old double murder, can go there. But I can tell you about the 11 yo drug dealer who shot the cop while resisting arrest. Trust me not pretty, and left a job over it.

[Basementdweller]

Ya know Fish......At the cub level I don't really worry about it.....lets face it, it is a rare occasion that a 6 year old has a rap sheet, if they have a rap sheet, the neglecting parent isn't about to enroll them in scouting. From my experience it is rare that a boy has any legal problems before 10 or 11. We have a number of foster and adopted kids, most of them are really great kids.

 

Boy scouts on the other hand, we seem to get some pretty tough customers. 11 or 12 young men seem to get into trouble.... We are a very ethnic diverse group, Hispanic, Laotian, African American, Caucasian, and a variety of mixes. Most suburban white troops don't like or trust us, we are from "the Bad area". we have heard the whispers in the dining hall, trading post and around camp. But our guys have fun

 

Remember the goodie two shoes is just one mistake away from being a labeled a bad kid.

[Twocubdad]

But if our pack only accepts the perfect outstanding examples of kids...have we really done anything?

 

I think you should try that. Add "We only accept perfect, outstanding examples of kids" to your Roundup flyers this fall. Let us know how it works out.

 

My prediction is for a 50% increase in membership and a 100% increase in problem kids.

[Eagledad]

Cub Scouts is a whole different program than Boy Scouts. I found that you dont really have that much control over the 10 year old drug dealer because the parent is the pusher. Its the parents that cause most of the problems in cubs.

 

While I was Cub Master, I had to ask two Den Leaders to leave because of drinking problem during den meetings. We had one dad who drove all the kids to an overnight event while drunk. We realize the problem at the event and sent home alone. He reported to rehab the next day, but still. I had a family steal $400 dollars from our Popcorn fund and the worst part was this family needed it for survival. I had to ask a den leader to quit because her brain tumor caused her to be abusive with the scouts.

 

I loved my Cub Scouting experience, but it was a lot easier working with troubled boys in the troop than it was trouble adults in the cubs.

 

As for the troublesome 11 years old Boy Scouts, well I found that we both developed character as we worked together. Trying not to brag, but I was a pretty good CM. However, I am who I am because of my experiences as a SM.

 

I love this scouting stuff.

 

Barry

 

[skeptic]

The hardest part is not feeling "you" failed when you lose one. It took me a long time to realize that "we cannot save them all".

 

On the other hand, when you see the break through, or years later, as an adult, one of them you thought you lost shows up in good shape and says "thank you", it makes it all worth it.

 

Based all on scout age and above. Have to agree that overall, most issues are more parent related, either directly, or the parent simply refusing to admit their child may have problems.

[Papadaddy]

Now that I've "retired" from unit scouting, one of my greatest rewards is watching "my boys" grow up into productive young men. I am "friends" with most of them on facebook, and they still send me messages and we spar back and forth. One is now a Plebe at the Naval Academy and his brother is one year behind him. Others are making their way through college, or chose to go the "blue collar" route and are starting families of their own (not always on purpose!). Two other brothers are in the Service as enlisted men and I enjoy seeing pictures of their experiences as they progress up the ranks. I pray for their safety every night. Sure we had our trials and tribulations and frustrations as they "grew up" and not all of them stayed clear of the law (and grieved with them as a few lost a parent along the way to divorce and cancer). But their heads are on straight now, and I like to think I and Scouting played a part in that. My biggest pride is my own two sons, who didn't make Eagle, but live the Scout Oath and Law in their daily lives as they launch successful careers and families of their own. I was hoping for a grandson so we could start all over again, but the Lord blessed us with a girl. Maybe the BSA will be coed by then!

[Engineer61]

I'm raising three kids and have coached 100's of others over the past 12 years.

 

As such, I have no delusions that there is any such thing as a perfect kid or perfect parent...or perfect SM/ASM/CM/CC.

 

Last season was the first season that I ever had to remove a kid from my team. He was disruptive and disrespectful to the other players, coaches and even umpires. The last straw was when he stole from another player. So, he got booted. I am not a social worker and I did not sign up to be one.

 

I have an expectation that the adults who run the Troop are first and foremost concerned with the safety of the boys. If that is not the case, it is not in my boys best interest to be in your Troop.

 

The Adult Leaders, CO and BSA all share a moral and legal responsibility to ensure the safety of the boys. If one boy jeopardizes that safety due to his criminal behavior then everyone is put at risk.

[desertrat77]

As long as each scout is striving to do his best to live up to the ideals of scouting, and showing progress, that's good.

 

When a scout shows repeatedly he can't or won't abide by scouting ideals, then it's time to part ways.

 

Scouting is not supposed to be a "one mistake" program. There are occasions, however, when it's a "one crime" program and then the scout has to go.

[qwazse]

Depends on the "crime", I guess. There are some things that are above my pay grade.

 

A prostitute (of either gender) in my crew would definitly make me call my SE for a better placement.

 

An assault and battery? If it hasn't shown up in the crew life, I'd give the kid a chance. I wouldn't sign him/her up for a high adventure until I've seen reliable performance on numerous weekend outings.

 

Most teens are up front with their "liabilities." They've probably learned that letting someone find out indirectly makes things worse.

 

So, if a kid tells me he/she has baggage we have to deal with, I try my best to support the kid.

 

Everyone knows I hold them to a high standard. The youth somehow manage to live up to it. If not, there is the door ...

[BadenP]

Qwazse

 

You have a great attitude and a willingness to give a kid a chance which helps make you a great and trusted scout leader with your youth.

 

twocub and Eng61- your intolerant attitudes and deep set prejudices makes me seriously question your ability to be a fit scout leader who truly exemplifies the scout oath and law or one who just goes through the motions, always taking the easy way out, but never seeing the bigger picture.

[Engineer61]

Actually BadenP ...

 

I believe that it is your indifference towards the welfare and safety of children that makes you a clear and present danger to every youth you come in contact with.

 

I suspect that you are more concerned with collecting paraphernalia for your Scout uniform than making certain that the Scouts in your charge and whom you have responsibility are properly protected.

(This message has been edited by Engineer61)

[BadenP]

Eng61

 

Look at the history of scouting Powell took ALL the boys off the streets of London no matter their backgrounds and under his guidance he had no trouble. After almost 30 years as a scout leader the young men and women who had a troubled past NEVER once caused a problem in any of my troops or crews or EVER put any of the other youth at risk. So once again you don't know squat about what you are talking about.

 

As far as self importance is concerned it was these kids efforts and accomplishments that proved to me that deep down they were good kids who only needed a chance to prove themselves, all I did was give them that opportunity.

 

Too bad your own petty fears and prejudices will always prevent you from having the same experiences or teach you the TRUE meaning of the scout oath and law and teach you what being a good scout leader really means. You know Jesus accepted all people from all walks of life without question, so what gives you the right to exclude anyone from your troop who truly wants to be a scout, talk about being self important.

[Beavah]

Yah, I'm not sure what safety issues you're worryin' about E61?

 

We've started gettin' our usual round of summertime accident reports out of the intermountain west. One lightning hit, one loose rockfall, one SCUBA accident, one case of lung lesions from wind-driven southwest grit.

 

That strikes me as pretty typical of da sort of safety issues we have in Scouting, eh?

 

Not sure how having a "bad" kid around contributes to lightning strike fatalities, unless yeh have a very different notion of da way the Almighty / Zeus operates.

 

Beavah