Scout with Criminal Record

[Eamonn]

For my job and as a member of the HNT (Hostage Negotiation Team.)I have to attend a fair amount of training's that deal with Gangs and gang threats.

Maybe it's just me?

But somehow I just can't see someone who the "local police department" has listed "a confirmed gang member". Also being a Boy Scout.

Ex-gang member maybe.

 

Each and every kid who wants to be a Scout in any unit that I'm the leader of starts with a clean slate.

I don't care what he has done in the past.

Most of the time it's none of my business anyway.

A lot of the time when people talk about kids they see as being wayward they don't have the right information and something has made them uneasy.

The kid is black or lives on the bad side of town, his Dad is incarcerated, he has an ear ring, his pants are baggy, he listens to music that upsets someone . -The list goes on.

Best thing I've found to do is take plenty of no notice.

I'm willing and I really do try to treat everyone with respect.

I expect the same thing in return.

If a Lad is a little toad. I don't care what type of family he comes from, if his Dad is the local preacher or the local drug dealer.

I'll treat him like a little toad.

If the Lad is trying to do his best and really isn't causing me any problems (A few problems is OK!) We'll get along like a house on fire.

If the uneasy parents feel that this "Bad Lad" is cause or reason for them to remove their child from the unit? Then that's their choice.

I couldn't stop them if I wanted too.

But you can bet your last dollar I wouldn't want too.

I've had Scouts who have ended up in court for doing mostly dumb things and I've gone to court to talk on their behalf. I've welcomed them back into the Troop with open arms.

We both know that they messed up, but if they are willing to start over? I sure as heck am.

The day I turn a Lad away just because he has a bad reputation, is the day I'm done with Scouts and Scouting.

Scouting isn't an organization for little angels, if it were Scouts shirts would have hole in the back for the wings.

Give me a cheeky little fellow who is doing his best to find his way, even if he does mess up any day of the week.

Ea.

[BadenP]

Eng61

 

If you read the OP's original post carefully the drugs and gang stuff were prior to his joining the troop, she has no evidence he was dealing or gangbanging since he joined the troop so this is not a safety issue as much as the paranoia of one parent of a boy in the troop. I am willing to bet his so called attitude problem was probably conjured up by her in her one woman effort to force the troop to get rid of the boy. IMO the real problem here seems to be the mother who is willfully slandering the boy in order to get others to join her little witch hunt. Do you really think a troop leader would take a boy into a troop if he posed any threat to the other boys? Don't you think that the SM/Committee already know about the boys past and discussed it in detail with the boy and his parents and the police?

 

The other fact that casts real suspicion on this OP is that she posted then immediately closed her account without ever waiting for an answer tells me she is probably just another flamer or troll using this forum to get a reaction and this whole story was bogus from the get go. I think we have all wasted enough time on this fantasy story.

[jtswestark]

>>No, arrest is a very recent one, one of several increasing recently,

[BadenP]

jts

 

Read her second post ALL her information is 3rd hand and she even admits when she has met him he seems just like one of the guys. If this is even a true scenario which I highly doubt it is all he said she said with no specifics. The other reason I doubt the verasity of this story is I have had one or more youth in my troops and crew to know what happens personally. These kids if they are serious turn out to be among the higher achievers, dedicated and involved. If they are pulling a con they usually leave on their own in a month or two with little damage done. All these scare scenarios by some other posters are bogus and come from their own fears than actual personal experience.

 

If any of you really think any gangbanger would want to join a troop to pedal drugs then you are both naive and out of touch with what really goes on in that world. Drug use in troops usually comes from the so called good boy who bring mommy and daddy's pain killers and booze to a campout and shares them with others. And lets get real here when was the last time you heard of a drive by shooting at a boy scout meeting? Never is the answer.

 

When I worked with that ALL high risk troop in the heart of the poorest part of LA the gangs never once bothered any of the boys or disrupted any of our meetings because we were no threat to them. So all you fear mongering scouters be at peace because what you fear the most is not realistically ever going to happen, especially in a case like this where just one boy is involved. I have two former juvenile offenders in my crew today and you would never be able to pick them out, they have both finished Ranger and are working toward the Silver Award.

[Beavah]

All members of the Boy Scouts of America are expected to conduct themselves in accordance with the principles set forth in the Scout Oath and Scout Law.

 

Yah, but I reckon that applies to us adults first and foremost, eh? And spreadin' rumors about a kid or talkin' about potential "lethal" consequences just doesn't pass the First Point.

 

I think for almost all scout units (save those with a very special set of resources and skill) drug dealing at the methamphetamine level is beyond what they can handle. That's a walk-yeh-to-the-door-and-down-the-street-to-rehab kinda thing.

 

At da same time, adults spreadin' rumors or privileged information about other people's kids or settin' up a vendetta against someone else's child based on such rumors is also a walk-yeh-to-the-door-remove-you-from-scouting kinda thing.

 

Fact is, you're not entitled to know what's goin' on with other people's kids. If your son attends a school, authorities are forbidden from revealing other children's records, academic or disciplinary, to you. If yeh home school with a cooperative, other parents are under no obligation to share their kids backgrounds with yeh. Why would you expect scouting to be any different?

 

Beavah

 

[Scoutfish]

" not actually - her second and last post specifies recent occurrences and events that have already caused changes to how the troop functions. "

 

 

Yeah, but her first posts talks about how it is a mater of criminal record, and her second post states that the arrests were very recent.

 

Thing is, if they were as very recent as she describes, I cannot imagine that the whole process has been worked through and it being on record already.

 

 

[Callooh! Callay!1428010939]

Those who insist on hewing to the facts of the OP as in a court case, please hold your cries of "I object, Your Honor... that's not what the OP said!"... and ignore this post starting..... here. We'll follow the protocol jtswestark invoked in an earlier post and use the OP as a prompt for discussion of related matters general.

 

The question in Beavah's post "If yeh home school with a cooperative, other parents are under no obligation to share their kids backgrounds with yeh. Why would you expect scouting to be any different?"

 

The question takes us back to the pointy point of E61's earlier post. If you're at the point that post describes, in which an offense is serious enough that you're thinking "the issue is full disclosure" and the situation has you concerned about state laws that require you to report "if you are aware of any person who you may suspect may endanger the health or safety of a child." If you're at that point, then maybe it's not so much disclosure that's the issue as it is a "to-the-door-and-down-the-street-to-rehab kinda thing." As SP notes - deal promptly.

 

Where to draw the line....

Contrite one time shoplifter? - He can live it down. Maybe we can help.

Juvenile sex offender who's done time for battery and buggery? Not so much.

Between those two extreme examples there's a wide spectrum of seriousness, danger, and recidivism rates for offenses. Judgment will draw the line somewhere. Moral exhibitionism over where our individual judgment draws that line may be entertaining but it ought not set policy. Scouters may still be morally straight and doing good even if they don't live on the high moral plains where absolutely no boy is beyond their help.

 

Regarding disclosure, If a troop is of qwazse's "we take bad kids" variety, folks may not be entitled to know... but it seems helpful, courteous, kind, and brave of the troop to want to revise their sign and tell folks up front... "we take bad kids." They can do that without slanderous rumor mongering.

[Basementdweller]

The problem with the initial post is she stated that the info was confidential.

 

the boy has "No Terrible issues in the troop".

 

 

So what basis are you going to approach the young man and toss him out.

 

With the way the courts guard youth records, unless the youth or guardian tells you how would you know????

 

As a leader all can do is be a little more vigilant with the scout.

[Twocubdad]

But that's the problem, BD, as far as the OP knows, the leaders are unaware of the more serious charges against the boy. They're looking at a disrespectful, hyperactive troublemaker who seems to be getting better. I don't believe it is a forgone conclusion that the boy is expelled. Arrest doesn't mean conviction and perhaps the fellow was just standing on the wrong corner at the wrong time. But you find that out by talking with him and his mother.

 

And you are absolutely correct that the unit leaders need to keep a close eye on the situation, but how do they know to be more vigilant if they don't know about the meth dealing charges?

[BadenP]

 

 

CC -your reporting requirement analogy is of absolutely NO relevance here. The boys past is already known. Again all you seem to want to do with your posts is stir up a hornets nest, which is neither helpful or of any value.

 

Twocub- you are looking at this from the wrong perspective. You can be vigilant just by looking for strange or secretive behaviors from the boy. Look the fact that this kid wants to be a scout is a real tip off to me that either he was either in the wrong place at the wrong time or he is truly looking for a real solid alternative to what he has done before, and in either case he deserves the benefit of the doubt. Look most juvenile offenders I have worked with there is a tendency by others to isolate them out of fear and giving them in turn a sense of feeling worthless. Giving them a chance to not only be a part of an mainstream organization of their peers but also to accomplish positive, constructive achievements in their life, and to be recognized for those accomplishments goes a long way towards having those kids making lifechanging choices in their lives.

[Beavah]

the situation has you concerned about state laws that require you to report "if you are aware of any person who you may suspect may endanger the health or safety of a child."

 

Yah, just to be clear...

 

There aren't any states that have laws that are that expansive, eh?

 

And whatever the actual text, da state reporting requirements refer to a confidential report made to da state child protection agency which is required by law to keep it confidential. It does not mean publicize to everyone in the child's youth group.

 

Beavah

 

[Basementdweller]

With out the confidential information.....YOU have no idea about the issues with this young man outside of scouting....

 

Hyperactive and problems with respect.....sounds like every single kid in my troop.

 

You cannot ACT on the information....A little more vigilance or maybe give the young man a helping hand.

 

The OP mentioned he didn't advance very fast, maybe he doesn't have a parent or guardian who cares about him or advocates for him. Most boys with out parents in scouting flounder around for a year or so. Maybe the OP or an ASM should take the young man under his wing and help him out, guide him a bit.

 

This Scout could be any Scout in any of our Troops with out the Confidential information.

[Engineer61]

"There aren't any states that have laws that are that expansive, eh? "

 

Try Arizona.

 

"And whatever the actual text, da state reporting requirements refer to a confidential report made to da state child protection agency which is required by law to keep it confidential. It does not mean publicize to everyone in the child's youth group. "

 

Then, the adult leaders, CO and BSA are at legal risk ... eh?

(This message has been edited by Engineer61)

[BklynEagle]

I gotta agree with BadenP here - there's something hinky about the OP, given the registering-posting-leaving. Furthermore, even if BSAMomWW is legit, there's still a serious problem with her spreading information she shouldn't have in an effort to discredit the scout. If, as BadenP suggests, the lad is attempting to turn his life around and views Scouting as an effective tool for that, then more power to him.

 

I think that part of the problem that later parts of this thread have exhibited is that some have stuck with the case described in the OP, while others have gone on to a hypothetical situation based upon the OP. In a hypothetical, I again reiterate that IF a troubled Scout is trying to right his course through life, then we, as Scouters, should help him as best we can; HOWEVER, if a troubled Scout is clearly not trying to improve himself, is disrupting the Troop operations, is causing some sort of trouble for his fellow Scouts, and is only in the Troop because his parents are forcing him, then we, as Scouters, have an obligation to the other Scouts, who presumably are trying to do good, to remove the problem. I too have seen first-hand what SeattlePioneer and jtswestark described in their posts, about good Scouts leaving due to bad Scouts. Believe me, there are few things more disheartening than watching a Troop's membership get cut in half because certain leaders felt that some bad apples could be "de-molded".

 

I'm not Torquemada, but I'm not Fr. Flanagan either.

[Beavah]

Try Arizona.

 

Yah, hmmm... not to rain on your parade or anything, but...

 

First, Arizona is not a state which makes everyone a mandatory reporter of child abuse and neglect, eh? Only the set of folks who are presumed to have knowledge or privileged contact with kids (physicians, teachers, clergy, parents, etc.). That would not include volunteer scouters. (AZ Rev. Stat. 13-3620).

 

Second, Arizona has relatively reasonable and cogent definitions of child abuse and neglect with respect to its reporting statutes, not expansive ones. (AZ Rev. Stat. 8-201).

 

Then, the adult leaders, CO and BSA are at legal risk ... eh?

 

Not sure what yeh mean. If they blab confidential information to all and sundry? Yah, sure, I reckon that's an irresponsible thing to do that would hurt others and therefore they might be held liable for those damages. If you mean they have additional exposure from workin' with kids who aren't perfect? Yah, sure, in da abstract. Imperfect kids are more likely to do somethin' dumb than perfect ones, though I reckon yeh have to provide adequate supervision regardless. That's not very different from ordinary day to day scouting or youth work though, eh?

 

Look, I understand where you're comin' from as a parent. We all would like to ensure that our children are only exposed to da best possible influences and only other children and adults who are above average. But we're just not entitled to that sort of information about other people or their kids. Nor should we be.

 

Beavah

 

Da fellow who's writin' this note has hardly ever been to a bar near a cactus, let alone been a member of da bar in a land of cacti (and fire and dust storms ). Sand gets in da fur, and there's no dam place to build small dams and pretty ponds. So nuthin' yeh read here or anywhere on the internet should be taken as legal opinion or advice by this flat-tailed furry fellow or any other critter.