Scout with Criminal Record

[BSAMomWW]

I have discovered confidentially that a 15 year old Scout in my son's Troop has a criminal record such as dealing methamphetamines, among other offenses, and is a confirmed gang member by a local police department. While the boy has no terrible history in the Troop, he is known as somewhat of a trouble maker in terms of hyperactivity and not dealing respectfully with others, some issues of self control, has only just earned Scout and has been in for years. But my reports were that he has gotten a lot better. Our leaders have felt that this boy, with a somewhat troubled single mom as a parent, is the one kid who really can benefit from Scouts, and I agreed with them. Other parents have left because they did not like him around their son, but my son personally has had no problem with him other than disagreements here and there. What boys don't disagree sometimes? And in every group you will have conflict at one time or another. But a drug dealer and verified gang member?! How can I keep silent on this and let this boy continue to be around the other boys? But how can I say something and get the person who revealed the info to me possibly fired, plus both of us possibly sued? Any advice on this would be appreciated.

[Eagle707]

Let me preface this with a disclaimer: I am NOT a lawyer.

 

I would avoid making a big deal of this for one main reason: you shouldn't know this. You have gained access to confidential information and would have to explain how you got it. It's hard to expect Scouts to be trustworthy if you are ignoring confidentiality rules. Also, if you didn't have a problem with him before you learned this, why do you have a problem now? It sounds like he's working to keep these things out of his Scouting life (if not his whole life). If it was truly a concern, it would probably be public knowledge. In fact, it probably is, to some extent (you know how boys talk).

 

If you REALLY feel compelled to do something, talk to your COR and your CC about the Scout and ask if they will revoke his membership in the unit (perhaps get your DE involved in the conversation too). I'm not sure I would go this route though.

 

Personally, I would continue to let him participate and keep a close eye on him. If Scouting is keeping him from living out part of this other life, I would try to keep him in Scouting. Every minute he's in Scouting is a minute he's away from his other life and those minutes add up.

 

Do I condone his actions? No. Do I think this is a situation for vigilante action? No. Am I attacking you? No. At least, I'm not trying to attack you. I'm just trying to ask some important questions about an awkward situation. I work with HIPPA and FERPA and I know that breaches of confidentiality are taken very seriously. Be careful how you proceed on this one.

[CCbytrickery]

I would not say anything. Just keep an eye on the situation and make every effort to be involved with the boys. If any problems come up, you can decide how to deal with them then.

 

But the boy may have learned his lesson, and this scouting situation may be the best thing that has ever happened to him. Mentor him, if possible; it could make a huge difference in his life, even though it would be a small disruption in yours.

[shortridge]

Did these offenses just happen recently? Or was he charged with dealing drugs at age 10, 11, 12, 13? The timing may have some bearing on the issue.

 

Also keep in mind that having a "criminal record" does not necessarily mean he was convicted. The charges could have been dropped, he could have gone into a special drug court program that involved rehab and counseling, etc.

 

Maybe this is a Scout who has turned his life around from drugs, and is working to turn it around in other ways through Scouting?

[nldscout]

I am not sure where you got this information from, but whomever revealed it to yo can in all probability lose thier job and even be prosecuted for doing it.

 

My next point is unless you somehow have seen or have access to an actual criminal history, not what someone has told you, I would tread very lightly before you get accused of slander.

[BSAMomWW]

No, arrest is a very recent one, one of several increasing recently, probably as a result of the gang involvement. And I have learned from my spouse that this boy's incidents in the Troop are not as innocent as I thought - altercations with other boys, destruction of property, discipline/attitude issues on most trips. But whenever I have seen him, he seems just like any other boy who acts up sometimes. Certainly not "scary" or threatening, just a little out of control sometimes with not listening or participating as respectfully as he could be. But I agree there is nothing we can say about any confidential information but can only be more vocal when the next incident occurs and removing him from the troop is discussed again. It has been discussed several times in the past because of his behavior. We had in the past been fairly relaxed with rules - nothing written - but that has been changed, I believe because of this boy. The boys have had to sign agreement to the rules. I truly feel he is not a real problem to the other boys, more a problem with destroying himself. And I do hope that Scouts can help him, as I think Scouts teaches the boys very valuable skills and ideals. As I am not on the Committee or on the trips, I cannot keep an eye on this boy, but I know the other leaders are. My spouse can also keep an eye, closer maybe than he has in the past. Think that is all we can do. Thanks.

[Papadaddy]

The Judge speaks wisdom. I would base my actions on what I or my son personally observe, not on hearsay.

[jtswestark]

So there's the rest of the story you all need to decide how long and how far you are going to accept a disruptive Scout in your unit. Stay away from anything that occured outside of the Troop. All you can act on is what happens at Scouting events. Someone ultimately will have to make a call on how long you are going to tolerate the youth. Which is a shame as you dont want to force a kid out of what is probably one of the few bright spots in his life. But youve got to do what is best for the unit and other boys in it. Sad to say many times these situations dont have a happy ending.

[Beavah]

Hiya BSAMomWW. I'd welcome yeh to the forums, but I see your account is already closed. Yeh should hang around, yeh might learn other things that could help your son's troop.

 

In the BSA we try to teach the lads character, even when it's hard. And so as adults we try to think about character, even when it's hard.

 

I'm sure whoever revealed sealed documents to you meant well, but I think you know that was wrong and that the best choice on your part would have been to stop them and tell them you weren't interested. Failing that, it takes a real act of character not to give undue credence to this sort of rumor.

 

Fact of the matter is, the person who revealed the information to you should be fired, and you know it.

 

Fact of the matter is, if you start spreading rumors or falsehoods about a young man around his community you are liable for the damage yeh do to him and his family. And yeh should be. And yeh know it.

 

Yeh don't mention your position in the troop, eh? Sounds like maybe yeh might be a committee member. In this kind of stuff, I think yeh need to trust the authorities in law enforcement and the courts who are closer to the case, and the Scoutmaster / CC / COR who are closer to the boy. Give 'em the benefit of the doubt, and the time to pursue options.

 

Beavah

 

[BadenP]

 

I think Eagle707 said it best BSAMom, you somehow gained access to confidential court information that you had no right to, a minors records are sealed. The boy is making an attempt to change which given his supposed past will take time. Unless he does something wrong in the troop what he really needs now is some support and guidance to prove to him there are alternatives in life. Case in point, an aquaintance of mine in high school was the leader of one of the toughest gangs around, getting drunk, smashing heads, etc. his probation officer took an interest in him and got him on the right course. As a result he became a police officer, went to law school and today is a well respected judge. He now goes to high schools and talks to kids about making the right choices in life. Now imagine if early on someone was telling everyone what a rotten person he was as he started out trying to change his life.

 

From your story this kid is on the beginning of his journey to a new life, give him the benefit of the doubt and time to see if the BSA helps him straighten his life out.

[SeattlePioneer]

Keep in mind that the rule of thumb is that one bad boy can drive six good ones out of a troop.

 

Most troops try to hold onto problem children too long, in my experience.

 

In Scouting, you need to have boys who are OBSERVING the Scout law. It sounds like this boy has had the chance to learn and conform to the Scout law, and isn't doing so.

 

I would counsel him and warn him that unless he is helpful, friendly, courteous and kind to other boys, and trustworthy towards adult leaders, he will be suspended for infractions.

 

Then I'd do it --- with increasing periods of suspension should there be repetitions.

 

Start now.

 

 

 

Seattle Pioneer

[BadenP]

SP

 

From your post it is obvious you have never worked with at risk youth before, it takes time for these kids to learn to again trust an authority figure, it is not an overnight transformation. Your conclusions are also unfounded based on the limited info provided by the OP. As I mentioned in another thread my first troop as an ASM was a group of high risk minority inner city LA youth and the first order of business we had to establish with this group was trust and respect, for authority and each other. It took a while but it finally came together.

 

For the boy in this post the BSA may be the link to turn him around, to help him develop a sense of self worth, and to give him his first real experience with successfully accomplishing a set of goals he sets for himself. What he needs right now is guidance and direction, not a series of suspensions. What kind of archaic disiplinary rules are you using in your troop anyway?

[jtswestark]

Im with SP on this one, been down this road and lost some good kids to Scouting because there was bullying going on behind the scenes. You keep trying to give the kid the benefit of the doubt, expecting him to respond like most kids do, but he doesnt. Time after time. Wreckage along the way, complaints from parents, dropping attendance, fights, broken gear, discipline issues popping up it really becomes a time consuming topic seemingly always centered around one or two boys.

 

Youre exactly right BP, the large majority of adult leaders arent experienced in dealing with at risk youth. Most of us are just Dads struggling to balance my dinky paycheck and the family with a little time in the middle for fun. I dont have the time or the desire to fix the world I just cant do it all. Most of us didnt sign on to try and fix gang members or felons and honestly, Im a little scared about it and could see the OP was too. Maybe some of you arent so intimidated and God Bless you, Im grateful for what you do for those boys and society. But Im very content giving of my valuable time to a great organization and paying forward some of the things that were done for me. So please dont come down on those us that arent as versed in these areas.

 

[qwazse]

SP Keep in mind that the rule of thumb is that one bad boy can drive six good ones out of a troop.

 

My SM and I want to revise our sign ...

 

Troop ___. We take bad kids.

 

Those six "good" ones are welcome to start their own troop/crew next door. (Which they did, BTW.) Hopefully after a few years they will attract a few bad apples to tend to as well. If they don't want them, our door's open.

 

Most troops try to hold onto problem children too long, in my experience.

 

Is until 18 too long? We find if we are firm with discipline, kids who don't reform themselves leave. Is it tough on our more compliant boys? Sure. But when our kids become adults, it looks like they won't be able to pay the taxes to keep 'em in prison forever -- might as well learn how to give the better of the lot a "life on the outside".

 

I wouldn't say anything to the kid. He'll bring it up on his own in due time. Just hold him and the other boys to the same 12-point standard. The next three years will be decisive ones for this young man, and every scouting experience -- although seemingly inneffective now -- will be called upon, especially if he leaves the troop for a criminal gang.

 

Now, if the kid is using the troop as a cover, and his illicit behavior is coming into the scout shack, that's a different story. But that doesn't sound like that's happening here.

[Engineer61]

I think that there are some critical thinking skills missing here.

 

While I realize that there is a tremendous need for programs to support at risk and criminal youth, BSA is not it...

 

IMO, the issue is full disclosure. Parents have right to know that dangerous individuals are associating with there kids. And juvenile records are not universally sealed. Minors who are sex offenders still must register on the public registration. Further, in some states, if you are aware of any person who you may suspect may endanger the health or safety of a child, you are obligated by state law to report it....even if no physical evidence exists.

 

What exactly are the adults and scouts supposed to do if a rival gang follows this kid to a meeting and then decides to open up on the Troop with automatic weapons?

 

Fact: Meth can kill in a single dose. So this kid, in a whimsy of stupidity might decide to spike someone's water bottle. The next thing you know, you have a dead kid on the ground.

 

No. This boy should not be in a BSA troop without full disclosure.