CC veto

[operatingeng]

Can the committee chair of a boyscout troop veto a vote made by the committee because he/she does not like the out come of the vote?

[Beavah]

Hiya operatingeng, welcome to da forums, eh?

 

Generally speaking, the answer to your question is "no.". A committee chair is like the chairman of the board of a corporation. He or she has some duties within the committee, but has no authority outside of the consent or approval of the committee. He or she is honor-bound to follow the direction of the committee even if he or she disagrees.

 

Now, in scoutin' the owner of the unit (a unit is a cub pack, scout troop, venturing crew, etc.) can override the committee, or fire them all. The owner is the chartering organization, and within the chartering organization that authority usually resides in the president/pastor/CEO (called the IH in boy scout lingo). Because that person is busy, the authority is usually delegated to a Chartered Organization Representative (COR). The COR can override the committee, though he/she shouldn't except over somethin' very serious.

 

Where it gets tricky is that the COR can be the CC. It's not typical, but it's common enough. In such a case, the committee is more like an advisory board than da "board of directors" role talked about in the scouting materials.

 

So if your CC is also the COR, he or she can "veto", but that's acting as a COR and not as Committee Chair. Of course da normal response of a committee is to resign en masse, which is why a COR should never do that lightly.

 

Now, can yeh tell us a bit more? Usually with more information, we can be more helpful.

 

Beavah

 

 

[CalicoPenn]

Are you asking under Roberts Rules of Order? If s/he voted in the original vote, then no. I s/he didn't vote, then yes. But then the Committee can vote to override.

 

Are you asking under the BSA Troop Committee Handbook? Then you're pretty much on your own and can make your own rules.

 

Practically speaking, if the CC has vetoed something the entire committee has voted for (and we won't even get into a discussion on why your voting on things in the first place), then ignore the veto and just go ahead with what you voted on doing anyway.

 

If the committee is somewhat split, then you have some work to do to find compromise to move forward with what the majority wants. You should be trying to "govern" by consensus as much as possible. If it's related to a program item - something the Scouts want and the Committee voted for it and the Chair vetoed - then just override the veto. If it's something the Scouts want to do and the Committee voted against it, then stand by the veto.

 

In the end, there is only one real method of voting - with your feet. If you can't come to some kind of understanding with the CC, then just walk away from the committee.

[Beavah]

Are you asking under Roberts Rules of Order? If s/he voted in the original vote, then no. I s/he didn't vote, then yes.

 

Yah, hmmm... There are lots of versions of ol' Henry Robert's Rules out there, but as far as I know this would be false in all of 'em. Committees and other "Roberts Rules" bodies are deliberative assemblies, eh? There's no notion of a separate branch of government that possesses a veto. Once a motion is approved it's approved. It can be reconsidered for a short space of time, but that's considered tryin' to hijack da process, so it requires a motion by someone who voted in favor of the original motion, which would not be the chair in ordinary operation of Roberts Rules. Again, neither the Chairman of the Board nor the Speaker of the House can "veto" a vote taken by those bodies.

 

So we're back to "No" on the original question, but yeh need to tell us more, operatingeng.

 

Beavah(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[ScoutNut]

In order to get a usable answer we would need more information than what you have given in your opening post.

 

What was the vote about?

 

What was the Committee vote?

 

Why did the CC not like that vote?

 

What is your position in the Troop?

 

How does this issue affect you?

 

 

[NJCubScouter]

I'll give a practical answer rather than a "rules" answer: If the CC in my troop did that on any significant issue, he/she would soon find him/herself a "committee of one." That would certainly cut down on "dissenting votes" in the future, but it would also cut down on having anybody else around to do the work of supporting of the troop.

[5yearscouter]

depends on what the issue is and why.

If it's the committee got carried away and voted for something against the law, against the BSA rules (like adding to requirements or ignoring tour permits requirements or stuff like that) or against common sense, I could see the CC "putting their foot down" about an issue. I would hope the CC would be contacting the COR and the SM or CM and trying to figure out what went wrong right there, consider more training for committee or something.

 

If it's a petty thing, I could see committee either leaving or contacting the COR themselves.

 

so what's the backstory?

 

[SeattlePioneer]

The main power of a Committee Chair is to persuade people to work together to present a quality program for youth.

[BadenP]

SP

 

I think you missed it a bit, a CC is like a CEO of a business whose job it is to make sure all the other committee members are doing their jobs and that all the pieces/resources are there for the unit leaders to deliver a quality program to the youth. The CC coordinates with the COR when necessary to keep them assessed of what and how the unit is doing. As the COR/CC for my venturing crew our committee works like a well oiled machine helping each other to make sure the crew advisors have what they need to go on all the activities the crew does each year. It is a team effort and the CC is the team leader.

[Eagledad]

BP, I think you and SP are saying the same thing. SP just gave less detail.

 

The short answer to the question is No.

 

If the CC is disapointed in the vote, than he or she didn't present the other side well enough to sway the results. Vote again.

 

Barry

[eisely]

Assuming that the CC is not also serving as the COR, and also assuming that there are no bylaws that vest such a veto power in the CC, then the CC does not have such a power.

 

Having said all that, the fact that the CC thinks that he (she) has such authority is itself troubling and suggests deeper issues within the committee.

[operatingeng]

Thanks for all the info.

What it was is the comm voted on a 25.00 per year gear fee to help pay for tents and such. Later that week the CC advised me he is not happy with the vote and will not honor it. He stated that due to the economy, some families can not afford it. We offered to have a fund raiser so the boys can earn this but still, no Luck

[ScoutNut]

If your Troop needs new tents, where does the CC plan to get the money for them?

 

Personally, I prefer a money-earning activity over a "gear fee".

[5yearscouter]

That doesn't sound like a veto.

That sounds like a CC who went home and thought about it, and perhaps was contacted by several parents who cannot afford yet another scouting fee.

 

Depending on your troop finances, this may be something necessary, or something that just seems like what you should do. For instance, our troop has a LOT of money, but committee often will vote to pass costs on to the scouts, when the troop could and should pay for the items out of the troop funds.

 

The CC or COR occassionally has "put his foot down" that the troop has the funds, the parents don't have the funds, and as long as it's a troop supplies cost, the troop should cover it from their % of the fundraising profit if at all possible.

 

Unfortunately the CC hasn't put his foot down in a while, and we are losing scouts over excess fees when the troop has $30k in the bank. yeah, that's something that sticks in my craw and makes me wonder if I'm in the right troop sometimes....

[frankpalazzi]

Oh..my....G-d...

$30K in the bank?? Why?? Why would even a large unit need to have that kind of money in the bank?

 

Raise what you need.

Spend what you raise.

Small surpluses are OK, but should be allocated for SOMETHING in the next year's funding.

Run a level budget!