ASM destroying our troop

[i82much]

This ASM is performing some of the jobs that belong to the committee, such as determining which scouts gets a campership, or which adults can go to summercamp. One instance, when a parent asked if her son could get a campership, the mother walked away belittled and humilated.

When this matter was discused with the SM, his response was "they'll be gone in a year or so, when the son makes Eagle".

So far we have lost 3 CC's (me being the last one)in less than a year.

Do "we" need to get the COR and unit commisioner involved?

[Oak Tree]

Do you need to? No.

 

Might you want to? Yes.

 

There's no guarantee that would help, though. You could just throw gasoline on the fire. Do almost all of the other adults agree with you? What do you think should happen?

 

What I would do first in this situation is to get a few adults to have an "intervention" with the SM, to convince him that this is really hurting the troop and it's not good to just wait it out. This would probably involve the current CC in our troop. At that point the SM (preferably) and/or CC could decide how to approach. If the COR doesn't know the personalities involved, it's going to take him or her awhile to sort things out, and most COR's are going to rely on the CC/SM to work through an issue with an ASM. Why would the COR not take the recommendation of those two people?

 

It depends much more on the people involved than it does on their specific titles.

 

The commissioner may or may not be any help. At best, he or she can help you work through the issues.

[CalicoPenn]

You've gone through 4 CC's in one year because of this ASM? Am I reading this right? Does he have pictures of you folks in compromising positions?

 

Should the COR or the UC be involved? Frankly, there's nothing the UC can do at this point, and the COR should have been brought on board a long time ago.

 

This ASM hasn't assumed these responsibilities in a vacuum. He grabbed on to them because you let him grab on to them. When he belittled and humiliated the mother of one of the Scouts, you let him do so.

 

But it's not neccessarily too late. Hopefully, your new CC has a spine and will stand up to both this ASM and the SM for his role in enabling the ASM. Your new CC should meet with the COR, explain the issues, then make sure the COR has his/her back when the ASM is told (not asked - told) that the Troop is gratful for his services but his services are no longer required, and that he is no longer an ASM for the unit, nor will be accepted as a Registered Adult Leader in the Troop in any capacity. If it takes the COR to do so, then so be it. If anyone balks (such as the SM) show them the same door.

 

 

[Beavah]

Yah, i82Much, welcome to da forums, eh?

 

I too am curious why a CC would quit over the behavior of an ASM. That just seems odd to me. If a CC and treasurer just do their jobs and communicate with the parent community, they can run da campership program themselves, eh? There wouldn't be an opportunity for the ASM to even insert himself.

 

Now, I find nothing wrong with a SM (or the ASM in the SM's absence) deciding what adults can go on a campout. That's pretty normal. Summer camp site space is often limited, and having too many adults runnin' around causes headaches for youth leaders. I think you'd want the adults at camp to be trained and have some experience, eh? Parents can always visit if they want, but da in-camp adults should be those who best contribute to the program for the boys.

 

So I'm not really sure from what you describe whether any action is merited with respect to either the CC or the ASM. Yah, yah, one parent feels like she was "belittled" but frankly, parent misunderstandings and complaints are normal even for the best scouters in the country. We all botch communication sometimes, eh? Da question on my mind would be how is the fellow with the kids? If he does a good job with the kids and the SM supports him, then I think yeh keep him as an ASM and expect the CC to step up and take a bigger role in parent communication.

 

So I can't answer your question without more information. Maybe yes, maybe no. Mostly, I think everyone should sit down and talk things out like adults. Save the drama for reality TV.

 

Beavah(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[i82much]

There is a lot more to the story.

One of the CC's that had been in that position for 8+years had everything running fine. Sure there were some last minute suffling at times, but everything got done.The ASM's husband who was also the treasurer decided that there should be "term limits" for this position, and with constant hounding, the CC gave up and resigned.

The next CC, who had been groomed and lied to by the husband lasted about 3 months and resigned because of the bickering, and the fact that she had been lied to about the previous CC wanting out.

The position went unfilled for 3 months, and at a committee meeting I stepped up to be the CC.

Everyone one was ready to vote but the husband who was "Acting CC" said that we would have to wait till the next meeting because an annoucememt was needed about a vote, even though all the committee members were present at that time. I kept my mouth shut because a Scout was present at the meeting to discuss his Eagle project.

When I got home, I sent out an email to all concerned asking why we had to wait on a vote, stating that no one had stepped up in the previous months. The husband took offense to that and resigned, and now the ASM is doing eberything she can to make life miserable.

As far as th SM, he makes me resolve all the problems that the ASM makes because he likes to avoid conflicts at all costs.

Of all the people involved, I'm the new kid, and am afraid of making to many waves

[Beavah]

Yah, teapots and tempests, eh?

 

Speaking from afar, all this sounds just like ordinary adult childishness. A few people don't get along or get bent out of shape by each other's personalities. Get over it, act like adults, and focus on the kids! Some folks are just bull-in-a-china-shop types, eh? But they tend to be hard workers.

 

So if I understand the lay of the land right now, ASM's husband has resigned, so there's a new treasurer. That will make ASM less likely to be involved in any campership stuff. So far so good. My remaining questions still stand. Is she good with kids? A reliable ASM? She still has the support of the SM? If so, great! The new CC just stops muckin' around with the SM's side of da operation and takes over the adult communication so that the ASM doesn't feel the need to. If the information gets out to everyone from da CC then no one need ask the ASM. All campership apps go to the new treasurer. Easy peasy.

 

If the ASM isn't good with kids and doesn't have the SM's support, then yeh have a different issue, but that's completely unrelated to anything mentioned so far.

 

Beavah

[NJCubScouter]

I82much (I have that problem too sometimes), it's getting a little confusing. Your first post suggested that you were no longer CC, but your second post suggests that you still are. Which is correct?

 

Also, did the ASM's husband want to be CC? Is that the real problem here?

[ScoutNut]

Yeah, I can't understand why your COR has not been involved in this from the get-go. Is it that your Chartering Organization, and it's Representative, take a very hands off position?

 

Neither ASM's, or Treasurers, have the ability to set "term limits" on any BSA unit volunteer. Only the owner of that unit - your Charter Organization - can do that.

 

A Treasurer does not have the ability to declare himself "acting" anything, or to decide who is, or is not asked to be Committee Chair(CC). Only the owner of that unit - your Charter Organization - can do that.

 

In order to be the registered Committee Chair for your Troop, you MUST be approved, and your BSA Adult Application signed, by your Charter Organization, in the person of either the Charter Organization Representative(COR), or the Institutional Head (IH) of the Charter Organization.

 

Contact your COR. Make sure the Charter Organization really wants you as CC.

 

If the COR is behind you, then have the COR let the SM, and the Committee, know you are officially the new CC. Get trained, and then DO YOUR JOB.

 

 

[Basementdweller]

Guessing there is much more to the story..........

 

 

As CC I would have consulted with the COR and have removed him......

 

It is just easier to find another troop.

 

The ASM should have absolutely nothing to say about a campership other than a letter of support that is.....BTW what kind of campership is it???? Troop, district, council or OA???????

 

Which adults go to summercamp?????? Are you talking about bickering for the free spots??????

 

other than that who cares?????? We make it clear that the boys tent together and mom or dad isn't supposed to follow them around all day.

 

 

[i82much]

I was the CC till 4 days ago. I found myself yelling at the wife and son after every meeting because of this ASM, and also wanting a drink and I don't drink.....TIME TO GO

The campership is offered by our Troop to go to summercamp, which this year we are going to one almost 500 miles away, which is why we need so many leader/drivers,which have gone thru all the training needed to be SM/ASM. The budget allowed for 2 scouts and 4 adults to attend this years summercamp so cost is not an issue.

The COR has had faith in our ability to pick our leaders and CCs, and would sign anything that needed his signature.....that is untill now. From what he said, some very difficult questions will need to be addressed soon.

This ASM is a great asset to our Troop(researching camps, tour plans and logistics) if she would just stay on the "scouting" side of things, but she is a control freak(her hubby also) and wants her hand in every cookie jar,even more so now that her hubby is no longer in the Troop. The hubby was in heaven when he had controll of the troop and the money.

Me and my son have made some very dear friends and I can not ask my son to leave this troop just because I have trouble with Mrs. So-n-So.

We (the committe) understand that she has no say so in the buisness side of the Troop, but the SM gives her free rein, and we haven't found another SM incase he decides to leave. There are other ASMs that would step up to being the SM, but that might be more of a problem

[Scoutfish]

"We (the committe) understand that she has no say so in the buisness side of the Troop, but the SM gives her free rein, "

 

The SM doesn't have the power to give or allow any member free reign of buisness matters.

 

[i82much]

So I guess we should "fire" both?

[ScoutNut]

No, the Committee, and who ever gets stuck as CC, should do their jobs, and make it clear to the SM, and ASM what their jobs are (or are not).

 

I suggest that you, as the most recent CC, talk to the COR about how the Charter Org's Troop is being affected by adults who can't play nice together. Perhaps suggest the COR steps up as interim CC, until a new one can be found.

 

 

[Beavah]

So I guess we should "fire" both

 

Nah, yeh should learn how to work with both and stop all this silly talk of "firing".

 

Fact of the matter is, most good scouters will be described by someone else as a "control freak". Taking charge is as much a sign of someone who cares and is willing to take ownership of hard tasks as anything else. Yeh need people like that to make things run. Yeh just need to figure out how to give 'em tasks that they can run with, and how to convey confidence and information about other tasks so that they don't "feel a vacuum" that they need to step into.

 

Good volunteers who care are hard to come by, and they aren't all nice and cuddly. A wise CC learns how to help the group use the strengths of different people while managing their weaknesses.

 

Beavah

[83Eagle]

Fact of the matter is, most good scouters will be described by someone else as a "control freak". Taking charge is as much a sign of someone who cares and is willing to take ownership of hard tasks as anything else. Yeh need people like that to make things run.

 

I'm going to take this and engrave it into granite somewhere...Excellent point...