AHG Leaders welcome at BSA training courses?

[Nike]

AHG is probably at that point where they need to have a national convention and have a good solid four days of working committees looking at organizational problems and solutions, rewriting what has gone before, looking at best practices from other youth organizations, deciding how to handle some of these growing pain issues.

 

Plus, it would give the 300+ troop leaders a great opportunity to meet and get to know one another. When GSUSA first started, they certainly didn't get much support from BSA or any other boys' organization. They had to do it on their own. Remember, girls' scouting was a radical, way beyond progressive, idea. Socialism made more sense to most.

 

If AHG is going to grow and thrive, you have to plan for a troop in every county/parish with intermediate administrative support.

[kcshrader]

>>AHG is probably at that point where they need to have a national convention and have a good solid four days of working committees looking at organizational problems and solutions, rewriting what has gone before, looking at best practices from other youth organizations, deciding how to handle some of these growing pain issues.

[ScoutNut]

>>"Unfortunately, the organizers have gotten the idea that since so many troops have been doing it for so many years, they don't need to give instructions any more. To say we floundered a bit in figuring it out is something of an understatement. If I'd had an leader who'd been there before to team with for the morning, it would have gone so much more smoothly.">"the guidance I've gotten from AHG National is to check with the BSA District Executive to see if there are any BSA Troops that are looking for an AHG partner troop."

[virtualjim]

Source (provided again):

http://www.scoutingnews.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/mou_bsa_ahg_bw.pdf

 

 

Looks pretty clear to me that national wants to do more than put some window dressing on a press release; as has been suggested. If they've not communicated this effectively through to the council level, then that needs to be addressed separately, but fact remains that folks in the upper seats have made agreements and are communicating a desire to "assist one another in areas of mutual objectives".

 

I like Mooseman's approach the best so far. If it's not a drain on resources AND another organization can avoid reinventing the wheel, then why would anyone be opposed to this? Rather ironically, his approach lines up very well to the concepts of Helpful and Courteous. Does AHG deserve a free ride, nope. No one does, it takes money to make these things happen and all should be paying their share.

 

Speaking as someone with a load of scouting in my history, what I find disturbing is the "us vs. them" mentality on display so far here. Yes, AHG should be able to stand as an organization. Great. Why the hostility and bristling when a partnership is mentioned? This isn't a question of organizational survival, it's a question about whether the hundred year old organization is mature enough to help the whippersnapper. When bringing up tenderfoots, I never once told them, "now you need to leave the Star and Life scouts alone, they don't have resources or time for you."

 

We strive so hard to find sponsors, donors, champions, and volunteers for our efforts. If a partnership is possible, does it not stand to reason that another scouting organization might just bring some of those things to the table?

[shortridge]

A "partnership" suggests sharing and working on areas of mutual interest, and at the moment, very few of those areas exist. AHG brings absolutely nothing to the table. The one constant message from AHG leaders and supporters here - in this thread and others - has been not "How can we help each other?" but "How can you help us?"

 

If a CO wants to sponsor both a BSA troop and an AHG troop, more power to it. If the CO wants to lobby the BSA council to allow its AHG leaders to take training, it has that right. I just don't think it'll realistically get anywhere. And why should it? BSA training is for BSA leaders. AHG has its own training - it's just not very effective yet, apparently. That's not BSA's fault, nor its responsibility.

 

Despite what some AHGers may think, the two groups are not allies in the fight to spread and strengthen Christianity. Make no mistake about it - religion is the core mission of AHG, not Scouting. Baden-Powell would roll over in his grave if he heard the exclusionary rhetoric coming out of AHG headquarters.

 

To be sure, Scouting in its early years thrived because of the support of groups like the Boys Brigade and the YMCA. But Scouting, as those organizations recognized, was an entirely different, brand-new movement. It grew organically beyond anything the YMCA could have imagined, quickly outpacing its early supporters.

 

What AHG has done is try to become a Scouting organization by piggybacking on the predominant conservative religious and political sentiment within the BSA. Instead of forging its own program, it has blatantly copied the Scout Oath and Law, and ripped off both the BSA and GSUSA uniforms. It has not had much success growing organically, instead choosing to leech on to the much larger BSA. At best, I see AHG as destined to be a national umbrella organization of Christian church youth groups and conservative homeschooling organizations.

[shortridge]

virtualjim:

 

Boy, you folks are just determined as heck to be proven wrong about this, aren't you? Sorry if it seems like I'm going out of my way to bash heads, but you guys and gals are just incredibly insistent on showcasing your willful ignorance of the meaning of the MOU. It has got to stop.

 

The BSA'S MOU with AHG is the exact same - with a few minor changes and tweaks - as the MOUs with every other of the organizations already listed in this thread. It's not "more than ... some window dressing on a press release" - it IS the window dressing.

 

(An aside: Punch the following search string into Google: "site:www.scouting.org memorandum of mutual support." You'll be surprised by how many others come up.)

 

For illustrative purposes, let's compare, side-by-side, the key elements of two of these MOUs. The first is the one with AHG. The second group's identity I'll disclose at the end.

 

AHG: Whereas, American Heritage Girls, Inc. and the Boy Scouts of America desire to establish and maintain a collaborative relationship on behalf of youth, young adults and families, we now enter into this agreement for the purpose of confirming a framework of cooperative relationship under which the American Heritage Girls, Inc. and the Boy Scouts of America will assist one another in areas of mutual objectives.

 

Other Org: Whereas the [REDACTED] and the Boy Scouts of America have maintained a valauble and productive relationship on behalf of boys, young adults, and their families. We now enter into this agreement for the purpose of confirming a framework for a cooperative relationship under which the [REDACTED] and the Boy Scouts of America will assist one another in areas of mutual objectives.

 

============

 

AHG: Whereas the Boy Scouts of America is desirious of lending its aid and support to the citizenship, character developmenta nd personal fitness of boys and young men and women through community based organizations.

 

Other Org: Whereas The Boy Scouts of America is desirious of lending its aid and support to the citizenship training, character development, and personal fitness of boys and young men and women through community-based organizations.

 

============

 

AHG: Resolved, that the American Heritage Girls, Inc. and the Boy Scouts of America will work with each other within the rules and regulations of the American Heritage Girls, Inc. and the Boy Scouts of America to establish and nurture a positive beneficial relationship as well as to cooperate in establishing American Heritage Girl units and Boy Scout Venturing units as an expression of the organizational values of the organizations.

 

Other Org: Resolved, the [REDACTED] and the Boy Scouts of America will work cooperatively with each other, within the policies and regulations of each organization, to establish and nurture Scout units as an expression of the outreach ministry of the [REDACTED] so that boys, young adults, and adults may grow in character, citizenship responsibility, and with the personal fitness necessary to achieve their greatest potential.

 

============

 

Now for the Big Reveal. The name of the redacted organization, which, as we have seen, has an MOU almost identical to that of AHG?

 

The Islamic Society of North America.

 

Yep, you read that correctly. In the eyes of the BSA, American Heritage Girls and the Islamic Society of North America are essentially the same.

 

What's that, you say? The AHG leadership told all its members how special and groundbreaking this MOU was? Yeah, sorry. You got snookered.

 

It is nothing more than feel-good public relations boilerplate.

 

So please - stop trying to insist that you are special.

[Nike]

An AHG leader once told me that they were the girls' side of Boy Scouting. I only smiled, but I'm sure my eyes popped.

 

I wish AHG all the best, but wonder if they will be able to compete in an already saturated market place--music lessons, sports practice, tutoring, enrichment programs, dance, youth group, volunteer programs, AWANA and Girl Scouts. Somewhere in there a family needs to sit down and have dinner together.