AHG Leaders welcome at BSA training courses?

[WoundedFox]

Another user stated earlier this year: "The memorandum of understanding allows AHG to utilize BSA training courses and BSA facilities the same that any BSA unit can." I am interested in more details on this.

 

I am a BSA leader in a large BSA council that has only a few AHG troops. Our Chartering Organization runs a Pack, Troop, Crew, and an AHG Troop. I have asked our district training chairman, and our district wood badge coordinator about whether we can register our AHG leaders for training courses, and the answer so far is that no one knows. (Note, they have not been opposed to the idea, they are just not sure whether it is supposed to be allowed. In particular, the Wood Badge forms state clearly that you must be a registered member of the BSA.)

 

From what I have read here, some other councils sell AHG materials from their scout stores, organize AHG weeks at camp, etc. That's great for them, but that appears to be due to decisions made at the council level. Is anyone aware of any national direction that I can bring to the attention of my local council to help them decide that they are allowed (or encouraged, or even required) to allow AHG leaders to register for various courses, preferably up to and including Wood Badge?

[NealOnWheels]

The BSA has a "Memorandum of Understanding" with many different religious, verterans, and service organizations. These statements are not much more than a public relations feel good document and are short on details.

 

They do not allow other organizations to "utilize BSA training courses and BSA facilities the same that any BSA unit can".

[NealOnWheels]

See http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/AmericanHeritageGirls.pdf

[WoundedFox]

I agree that the Memorandum of Understanding does not, by itself, create the opportunity for AHG leaders to take BSA training courses, but clearly such things are being done in parts of the country. I guess I am interested in knowing how much national level BSA support there is for this, and how this got set up in individual councils.

[Nike]

What percentage of AHG leaders are also BSA members or parents? Although AHG might want to work with BSA to create an AHG training program if they keep expanding.

[moosetracker]

I guess, maybe Woodbadge needs some certification (athough even there, why?). But, I don't see why we would kick anyone out of a training. They just would have to be happy with the training for self satisfaction, or work something out with their organization as to what it would count for..

 

I have not yet had a non-registered take my course, but I know some non-registered parents who have taken the IOLS course. So if we can let in non-registered parents to our trainings, we should be able to allow any non-registered.. Pay up, show respect for the trainers in the course and other participants.. Here's a training card which is worthless to you, but hope you learned something helpful.. Bye, Bye.. Nice meeting you..

 

We at least charge to defray the cost, so what is the problem.. I could see if the district or council was paying for the food, location etc, and you got free moochers..

 

What is the big deal?

 

Edited to add :

We currently open up the video training for two purposes

1) so new Adult Leaders can get a jump start before they get their membership #

2) so that anyone can utilize them if they see something beneficial..(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

[ScoutNut]

What BSA training courses (aside from Wood Badge) would you want AGH leaders to take?

 

Most of the BSA training is set up to train leaders specifically in the BSA program, and the way that BSA wants things done. It does not cover how other organizations programs are run. Nor should it.

 

 

 

 

[shortridge]

Honestly, I doubt you're going to find what you're looking for, WoundedFox. My guess is that the vast majority of councils have not had to deal with AHG yet because it's such a tiny organization. According to AHG, it has only 300 troops across the entire United States. There are none in my BSA council.

 

If you want to promote the idea with your council, go ahead. The best approach would probably be for your CO to do it. But I'd suggest that doing so might open up a whole new can of worms. Are you really willing to open up BSA training courses and council camps to all the other groups that have MOUs (or "Memorandums of Mutual Support") with BSA?

 

The MOU does not make AHG special, despite what its founders and supporters may think. It's on par with the Salvation Army, the American Cadet Alliance, AMVETS, the Knights of Columbus, the Future Fisherman Foundation, the National Urban League and the Islamic Society of North America, just to name a few.

 

As it stands now, there's nothing prohibiting AHG from renting out facilities at your local council camp. That might be a start, showing that there's some interest in using the BSA resources or being true partners. Otherwise, it kind of seems like AHG is looking to sponge off BSA to get its leaders trained.

[qwazse]

Most trainers that I know are not overwhelmed with students.

It's not sponging if they're paying.

Even if it is, I "sponge" off of the GS to re-up my CPR because they seem to have their act together to schedule trainings at my convenience.

 

But, to get around all of this, I would suggest you invite the leaders interested in training to register with the BSA units, especially if the crew is co-ed. It's an extra $15 for them, but that makes them available as a resource to the crew and venturers available as a resource to them. (Hint, crews often need: 1. female chaperons for overnights and 2. youth who need instruction in a specific skill for bronze-award venturing candidates to teach.)

 

Or they could register as an MBC in the troop. Not sure how many WB trainers have had "just MBC's" in their classes, but that would make for some interesting tickets!

 

Regardless, push a little paperwork on the unit level -- problem solved. Any of you district or council folks see any problems with that?

[shortridge]

Sorry, didn't mean to say that I thought AHG leaders wouldn't be paying. I was referring to "sponging" in the sense that AHG is an independent organization that presumably can stand on its own two feet. If it can't develop the infrastructure, resources or support to offer leader training, then that's not the BSA's problem to solve.

 

Now, if AHG can't get its act together to offer training to its own leaders, then the leaders can certainly look elsewhere. If they want outdoor training, take a class at REI. If they want a leadership course, take any of the corporate programs out there. If they want to learn about youth development, sign up for a community-college education course. Or they can build a training regime from the ground up, just like BSA did. Heaven knows there are plenty of BSA syllabii and training outlines floating around they can borrow from.

 

First Aid and CPR courses are different. If your organization is opening them up to the public, then of course everyone is eligible to sign up. But WoundedFox's inquiry was about more than just first aid, specifically referring to Wood Badge. There is simply no reason for non-BSA leaders to take Wood Badge.

 

I also believe that allowing AHG or GSUSA or FFA or 4-H leaders into BSA trainings would greatly dilute the value of the training for BSA participants. Trainings require a certain base level of knowledge and experience - whether we're talking about understanding the patrol method or knowing how to pitch a tent - that outsiders don't necessarily have.

 

And the problem I'd see with having AHG leaders register as Scouters would be that the AHG folks might not be able in good conscience to sign the DRP.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

[BDPT00]

The previous post's question was in regard to the DRP comment.

[shortridge]

BDPT - I have no idea what you're talking about regarding Venturing, NYLT and the DRP. Would you care to be a bit more specific?

 

About AHG, I only know what I've read, on this forum and in AHG materials. There are no local units in my area. I have not been left with a very positive impression of the organization. Its backers seem to want the BSA to do the heavy lifting. One past thread had someone complaining about how the local council didn't distribute any pamphlets on AHG; this thread was based on the false statement that the MOU allows AHG to use camps and take training. Both are ridiculous ideas based on a pretty incredible sense of entitlement.

 

AGH seems to be fundamentally a religious organization, devoted first and foremost to proselytizing and only secondarily to youth development. My question about the DRP - and it's still an open question - is whether such a group can have a symbiotic relationship with an organization such as BSA that is pluralistic in nature. *Would* the average AHG leader, registered as a BSA Scouter, be able to set their religious calling aside long enough to work with a Muslim or Jewish Scout without talking about "false idols"?

[moosetracker]

shortridge,

 

Well I don't know about the AHG using a BSA facility at the same reduced rate that a BSA group would get. That would wrap around some similar debate of Hotel or flight bookings. If you can get full price, for a rental that of course is best. If you have unused area that could be rented, but is going vacant, is it better to fill it at a reduced rate? (but then what if you fill it and the full paying customer comes in?? Oh well, to much accounting analysis for my brain.. Accounting Blach!

 

I can tell you as a district trainer, you estimate what to charge participants for a course based on what you are going to use in supplies and an estimate of how many people you expect to sign up for a course. If you run under, you fall into the red, if you are accurate in your guessing (and expected costs for supplies) you come out even, if you have more then you guesstimate, you are providing the snacks or dessert or something so you do not make too much of a profit..

 

So if I get more in my class due to some AHG group wanting to join the training, or anyone else who walked off the street, but has a desire to learn what the course is teaching (I can only imagine this interest from the outside public for IOLS/OWLS, maybe some supplamentals like fundraising or recruiting youth or adult Leaders).. Anyway, where are they mooching? The more in my class the better for me..

 

As for their more religious foundation.. As long as they don't try to convert me, or preach to me during my training course, it isn't my concern. I guess if I can overlook some of BSA's self-rightous opinions that have people picketing against our program, I can overlook theirs.

[Jeffrey H]

"...is whether such a group can have a symbiotic relationship with an organization such as BSA that is pluralistic in nature."

Sure it can.  The BSA is filled with charter organizations that are exclusive in their religious beliefs and yet believe in what the BSA stands for and represents.  The Scout Oath and Law does a great job of bringing different religious and community groups together for one common goal - character development for our youth.

[Jeffrey H]

American Heritage Girls (AHG) was started as an alternative to the Girl Scouts USA. They are a scout-like organization but cannot use the name "Scout" because the BSA and the GSUSA have exclusive rights to that name granted to them by their Federal Charters.

 

As you can see, their creed is very much in line with the ideals of the BSA. http://www.ahgonline.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=19319

 

The AHG Creed:

 

As an American Heritage Girl, I promise to be:

 

Compassionate - Understanding others in fellowship, empathy, kindness, and caring. Respect others' opinions and emotions.

 

Helpful - Willingly serve others.

 

Honest - Always tell the truth and keep my promise.

 

Loyal - True to God, family, friends, community and country.

 

Perseverant - Continuing to strive toward a goal despite obstacles.

 

Pure - Keep my mind and body pure.

 

Resourceful - Wisely use my time, materials and talents.

 

Respectful - Honor my country, be obedient to those in authority and courteous to all.

 

Responsible - Accountable for my own actions. Reliable in all situations.

 

Reverent - Faithful and honoring to God. Respectful to the beliefs of others.