Committee Chair Person problem

[ScoutBox]

This is the line I am taking. I am also a member of the International Committee. So I try to remember the Diversity.

[NJCubScouter]

Well, if Americans and British people (Britons? Britishers?) can't get along on a troop committee, that doesn't say much for the World Brotherhood of Scouting, does it? I mean, what would happen in a unit with Israeli and Syrian members? (I know, there probably wouldn't be such a unit, but I guess that is part of the point.)

[Nike]

As ADC are you in a position to, on a yearly basis, inform the current troop COR & IH that they are losing boys to the other troop due to a program that simply isn't being run the BSA way? And they might be in danger of losing the charter if things don't improve? (Admittedly, this could be a dicey strategy depending on if the CO wants to keep the charter.)

 

Hopefully, if Madame CC leaves your troop and tries to start a crew, your DE and our friends at Darby will not issue a charter to a CO which has her as a crew advisor based on past experience.

 

I'm not holding my breath, but...

[eisely]

It is my understanding that all the power over volunteer personnel at the unit level rests with the "institutional head" of the chartered organization, or the "chartered organization representative" if the chartered organization chooses to name one. Lacking any written bylaws governing the troop, the CC has no formal power under the BSA concept, but clearly has a great deal of influence.

 

When I have taught Troop Committee Challenge in the past I have always made a point that the ASMs are not part of the committee. The SM is expected to attend committee meetings. I have also always made the point that it would be a big mistake to exclude ASMs from committee meetings. The SM and the ASMs are the ones doing the heavy lifting in delivering the program to the boys. If I were treated as an ASM the way this CC apparently is treating the ASMs I would tell the CC to take my ASM patch and (redacted).

 

 

[Eagle92]

Unfortunately there is a strong anti-USA bias overseas, and I've encountered it with some Brits, aka POMEs , but really bad with some Finns. Why is the attitude there, proably b/c of a bunch of reasons from our own arrogance at time, to their jealosy, and maybe a bit of embarrassment sine we had to get involved with 2 of their wars and currently provide the bulk of NATO forces, ot our own lack of knowledge of history to name afew.

[Alabama Scouter]

This is why you don't have dual CC and COR positions.

Bad juju.

[qwazse]

E92 - Well the global politcs may amplify it, but culturally we tend to be brought up with a different leadership style. (E.g., "first to speak, last to listen." "My way or the highway." "Git 'er done.") Regardless of its validity, that stereotype leads folks to look to leaders from other nations to be the point-men when putting together multinational teams.

 

I was in one of those situations many years ago, and it took me months to realise that having a Yankee as "the guy" didn't bring out the best in the team, but as a sidekick I could help move things along, and when the leader was in a jam, I could tell him "Hey, I have this 'you can run but you cannot hide' routine that works from time to time, I think you should give a shot. Just this once ..."

 

I wasn't a parent at the time, and my kid's interest in scouting wasn't on the line. But I did grow a little. SB, I hope something similar happens with you and your CC. The more you tell us about it, the more my option #3 seems to be your ticket through (only maybe with some tea instead of coffee).

[Eamonn]

I'm asked every now and then if I would ever move back to live in the UK?

When I'm asked, I explain that if and when change happens and your not around to see it and accept it, the change and the changes can all add up and be too much.

It's been over a quarter of a century since I lived and Scouted in the UK.

During that time there has been a lot of change and changes.

While I was still living there, I was aware that many of the class barriers that were once so strong were starting to crumble.

I find the idea that anyone would think that the peoples of the UK hold any sense of" embarrassment sine we had to get involved with 2 of their wars and currently provide the bulk of NATO forces". To be more than ludicrous.

Comments like that put down and dishonor all the brave men and women in Europe who died during the great wars and do nothing to create any sort of harmony.

The young people and most of the middle aged people living in England today don't dwell on what happened 66 years ago.

Like it or not for many young people living in England the dates 1939 to 1945, hold as much significance as the year 1066. Just another date in a very long history.

It has however been my experience and my opinion that as a people the English are not as foot loose and fancy free with rules, regulations and that sort of thing as many Americans can be and are known to be.

 

I don't have any vast experience of working with BSA Troops in the UK or in Europe.

One year at Kandersteg we met up with a wonderful BSA Troop who were the nicest group. They were stationed somewhere in Germany.

This was back in 1976.

I found it odd that no one in the group spoke any German and from conversations it seemed that they had no dealings with the German people. doing everything on base.

Just outside Cobham in Surrey there was a BSA Troop connected to an American School in the area.

While I didn't notice it at the time, I now think that most of the Scouts came from very well to do families, with parents who worked at the American Embassy.

The Troop was 100% BSA.

I can't understand why an American BSA Troop would have a CC who isn't an American? Just sounds a little odd.

As for having ASM's at Troop Committee Meetings?

Why?

The role of an ASM is just as the name says an Assistant to the Scout Master.

ASM's should have no need to attend Troop Committee Meetings.

If the SM is having a problem then the problem is his to sort out and fix.

ASM's are not and as far as I know have never been Committee Members.

Sure, some units have meetings where almost ant Tom, Dick or Harry can attend and chirp up. But that's not what the "Good Book" says.

A lot of English people will follow all the rules as they are laid down, no matter what, or even if the rules seem or appear silly.

Things are different and things are done differently.

When we were first married we lived in England. We were invited to a Bar-B-Que.

HWMBO came down wearing jeans and a t-shirt.

She a little put out when I said that she needed to go and dress for a dinner party.

Sure enough when we arrived all the men were in suits and the women were in white blouses, complete with pearls and little black skirts.

Committee Chairs are free to seek advise from who ever they might want to seek it from be it the old SM or the guy in the pub down the road.

Much as I hate to look like an old book thumper. I think I read someplace that Commissioners weren't supposed to serve at the unit level. While maybe a unit commissioner might get by? I'm not so sure if someone who serves as an ADC should.

The bottom line for me here isn't the Committee Chair. It has more to do with the SM not doing his job and standing up to the committee.

Eamonn.

 

 

 

[acco40]

The only reason for an SA to attend a committee meeting is if the SM delegated that function to them.

[acco40]

Conversely, don't get me started on how many times well meaning moms and committee members felt like they needed to attend PLC meetings to "help out" and then always tried to use as a trump card the "no closed meetings" so called "rule" in the BSA.

 

Yes everyone should be play nice but their are reasons for these so called rules. As a Scoutmaster trying to pull some leadership out of the boys, it compounded the difficulty when a bunch of mom & dads, who really don't understand the BSA program would want to attend everything.

[eisely]

What I am arguing is not that ASMs should necessarily attend any or all committee meetings, but that ASMs should not be systematically excluded from committee meetings. An ASM should have the same right as any random parent to attend such meetings.

[ScoutBox]

OK, Like I said the problem I have isn't that she doesn't want ASMs at ONE meeting, although that makes no since. But that she lacks in Scout Spirit. It makes since to me that if the SM asks to have the ASMs at ONE meeting to help better the communication, and who does what job(s) int eh Troop, then the CC should be smart enough to allow this. Another point, she has never not allowed the past SM to bring or invite someone to a meeting. This is her power trip.

[acco40]

I get crotchety in my old age when many of the parents don't really want to volunteer to do anything useful - drive, help out with outings, run to the Scout shop, teach a merit badge, etc. but since they brought their kid to a meeting and are now bored, seem to be more than willing to kibitz at a PLC, committee meeting, etc.

 

Yes, all parents should be allowed to observe these meetings but sometimes it is easier to limit someone's attendance than to try and limit their behavior when they are already there.

[ScoutBox]

I was informed last night that she decided to step down.

[Nike]

Yay for your troop! Who's replacing her?