Is the BSA regulating the fun out of Scouting?

[desertrat77]

Yes...bureaucrats rule the day.

[TAHAWK]

No I do not, if you mean fun for Scouts.

 

The only rule change in the last twenty years that our Scouts noticed were the restrictions on pioneering structures. They really liked 20' towers, and no one ever fell. But time passes and those who miss those towers today are all adults. Will a Scout have less character, citizenship, or physical and mental fitness because we don't build those towers? I think not.

 

In the meanwhile, the refusal of a majority of adults in Scouting to allow the youth leadership has been there generation after generation. THAT counts. (Scoutmaster explaining to Roundtable why all Scout leaders are appointed in his Troop, October 1984: "They just won't elect the right leaders." SPL to Scoutmaster June 16, 2011: "Do you have an agenda for tonight's meeting.")

[Stosh]

perdidochas, et al,

 

I never camp alone, but I do have a lot more fun for several reasons.

 

Imagine in your mind for a moment, one calls a Flash Mob at the boat landing next Friday night and...

 

1) Only scouts are notified.

 

2) Only your friends are notified.

 

Which one will actually happen?

 

Stosh

[Scoutfish]

"Is the BSA regulating the fun out of Scouting? "

 

ABSOLUTELY! But it's not so much as a plan to do so, but a result of having to reglating BSA away from a multitude of lawsuits!

 

And I mean from the "My child got poison ivy/ scrape on his knee/ bumped his head on a tree/ got wet when it rained on his head, slept in a bad bed/ blister on his foot, came hom,e covered in campfire soot!

 

Okay, I didn't start out planning to rhyme, but it ended up that way.

 

Alot of fun stuff will get you a lawsuit fast from people who live the motto of : "It's always somebody else's fault!"

 

[moosetracker]

Scoutfish - It's always my husbands fault(rain, cold, Monday mornings). Does that mean I can sue him?

[shortridge]

This topic seems to pop up in a new thread about ever couple of months. The complaints (as here) center around paperwork (a single form is too much!), sheath knives (back in my day, we all carried them ...), climbing (why do I have to get trained?) and boat trips (I know how to canoe, why do I have to follow these rules?). You're not being banned from doing anything - there are just rules to follow, mostly reasonable ones. As CalicoPenn said, "what fun things are you being kept from doing?"

 

Beavah, I have a couple of things to respond to.

 

>> It sounds like the camp you visited with the boy complaining about not being able to get in a boat until the third day needs a program overhaul. You assume that it's a regulatory restriction, when in fact it may have been a question of resources. There's no rule in Scouting that says Scouts can't get into a canoe right away. There *are* steps to be taken in the instructional process that include swim checks, review (or teaching) basic strokes, review (or teaching) basic canoe maneuverability, etc. All that takes time, yes. But do you want to just toss a kid in a canoe on a fast-moving river with no instruction? And perhaps there were only a limited number of boats, and the class was large - maybe that's why the disgruntled whippersnapper was moaning.

 

>> You also complain about over-inspections. A large part of my job in a past life as a summer camp staffer was doing inspections, and I can assure you that we didn't inspect because of any Scouting rule or regulation. We inspected tents and equipment at check-in and check-out to make sure some little punk in the previous week hadn't slashed an expensive canvas tent with his knife. (Do you want your troop to be charged for damage caused by another troop?) We inspected campsites daily to build Scout spirit and a sense of competition among the troops by promoting clean living and tidiness. (There was also the matter of sanitation - is the troop keeping the latrines cleaned, or are there feces smeared on the heads? Some adult leaders were oblivious to such things, frighteningly.) Your anti-inspection riff just doesn't hold water, sorry.

 

>> And the first-day camp stuff: Would you prefer that your troop not have medical forms and medication reviewed so that the staff knows about your Scout with hemophilia, not have your actual attendance numbers matched to your campsite so that you're short two tents, not receive last-minute information about changes in the program schedule so that your Scouts are disappointed and not know where the program areas are so that your Scouts show up late to everything?

[Eagle92]

The only rule change in the last twenty years that our Scouts noticed were the restrictions on pioneering structures. They really liked 20' towers, and no one ever fell. But time passes and those who miss those towers today are all adults. Will a Scout have less character, citizenship, or physical and mental fitness because we don't build those towers? I think not.

 

True a scout will not have less character, citizenship, or physical and mental fitness. But they will have less fun. The will not know the sense of accomplishment of building something using only wood and rope, and climbing upon it. In my old troop's case, they will also not feel the wind racing past them as they ride the bosun's chair ride that the troop use to do at every scout show, with a line going aside the entire 60' -70' of the ride we made using two towers, rope, and a cable.

 

[JMHawkins]

Will a Scout have less character, citizenship, or physical and mental fitness because we don't build those towers? I think not.

 

I think so.

 

Less fun = more boys drop out = less chance to build character through the program.

 

So, yeah. All the over-bureacratin' will reduce character, citizenship and fitness.

 

 

[TAHAWK]

They have pretty good fun building long but low bridges over the inlet where we used to do the towers. (Rangers think its a blast and gather material for us. (Wonderful guys and gals and very supportive.)

 

We also build a carousel pretty regularly.

 

Trebuchet throws water balloons wonderfully well at man-pshaped targets (Scouts and Scouters). I think that's OK.

 

We go to Canada every other year to Dorchester Camporee, and they can USE a monster rope bridge. However, per a memo from organizers, starting 2012 only certified professionals can operate the zip lines at Scouts Canada events.

 

Older Scouts get to feel wind whip by from tops of mountains and see the sun rise over the edge of the world.

 

Still lots of good stuff.

[Engineer61]

"Less fun = more boys drop out = less chance to build character through the program."

 

I would rephrase that to say :

 

"Less fun = more boys drop out = less chance to build character through the BSA program."

 

That does not mean the said boys won't get these attributes from their parents, sports, band or other academic or non-academic opportunities.

[Oak Tree]

I asked my son why he thought that all of the merit badges now have so many safety requirements, and why in particular the BSA is very concerned about people going on the internet.

 

He said it's because the requirements are written by 50-year old men.

[Beavah]

Yah, short ridge, I get that da common response to critique of over-regulation is the straw man of untrained overweight fools taking boys up Mt. Everest or some such.

 

I just don't buy it.

 

We're not talkin' real safety with all this stuff, eh? We're talkin' Safety Theater. Put in place various trappings people associate with safety. Make everybody go through da motions.

 

Laser tag and paintball have a better safety record than scouting does, eh? We really haven't had a rash of people just throwin' kids into boats, just occasional folks who make errors in judgment with respect to da conditions or the capabilities of the group. Yeh can't fix errors in judgment with paperwork or policy prohibitions.

 

And I reckon with just a bit of effort, yeh can figure out service-oriented ways of doin' necessary tasks at camp.

 

Beavah

[Stosh]

Oak Tree,

 

No parent ever wants to hear that their darling children are full of it, but your son is. These regulations are not written by 50 year old men, they are written by 30-40 year old men a generation later that have watered down the program and made it more difficult. The 50+ year old men remember the fun they had as Boy Scouts and wish for the return of that fun. If you don't believe me, just ask any kid whether the stories of their dads are better than the stories of their granddads.

 

Stosh

60 years old and never grew up!

[SeattlePioneer]

I seem to notice more emphasis on Disneyland like high adventure camps than there used to be ---- high cost Scouting.

 

 

Personally, my bias has always been towards low cost Scouting. At least around Seattle, there are more miles of trails and mountains than any Scout is going to do for a lot of years. Why go jetting someplace else?

 

I never could figure that. But tastes differ, no doubt, and those who want to go to Philmont or a National Jamboree are welcome to do so.

[JMHawkins]

I would rephrase that to say :

 

"Less fun = more boys drop out = less chance to build character through the BSA program."

 

That does not mean the said boys won't get these attributes from their parents, sports, band or other academic or non-academic opportunities.

 

Absolutely. "the program" in my original definitely meant "the BSA program."

 

However, I do think the other opportunities for picking up character (and citizenship) lack something individually that a well-run, well-delivered, traditional Scouting program has. Very few other activities give a young man the opportunity to develop citizenship the way Scouting can. The combination of adventure (wait, sorry, ADVENTURE!!!!!