Committee Meetings attendance

[ADCinNC]

That would be like the SM telling the CC that a committee member may not attend a Troop meeting, but they can have their spouse register as an Assistant Scoutmaster.

 

I would politely inform the CC this per the BSA:

No secret organizations. The Boy Scouts of America does not allow any secret organizations as part of its program. All aspects of the Scouting program are open to observation by parents and leaders.

 

Since a Troop Committee Meeting is part of the program, The ASM can observe. The CC may not allow open floor questions from non-committee members, but that is another story.

[ScoutNut]

>>"the Committee Chair leaned over to me and told me that ASMs were NOT to be at committee meetings, and that he had recently verified this with the UC."

[Eagledad]

>>There should be an agenda published ahead of time and adhered to. This minimizes disruption and dominance of the meeting by any one person. Start on time and end on time. Any items to be discussed need to be forwarded to the CC in advance for inclusion on the agenda, at his discretion. Anyone not a registered committee member does not get a "vote". And, I agree, most business was conducted by consensus, not formal voting.

[bear dad]

EagleDad,

 

No your not in trouble. We have spoke on the phone, I live near you in OKC. It's been awhile since we spoke, I am a WDL and we talked about that.

I was trying to figure out what troop you was associate with. I met the SM for the troop last year at webelos woods. Not sure if same guy still?

brian

[The Blancmange]

This is drifting slightly off topic, but I think the "open to observation" language from the G2SS is a red herring in the context of committee meetings. It refers to observation of the scouting "program," and in the context of scouting, "program" refers to activities involving youth. A committee meeting is the antithesis of program.

 

I think it's inappropriate to close a committee meeting to people who have a genuine interest in the troop (parents, ASM's, etc), but for the practical reasons I stated before; not because of any rule or official policy.

 

On a side note, there is a "Private Message" function on this forum that will send a message to another user's email. It' easy to use by clicking the link next to a poster's message.(This message has been edited by the blancmange)

[Buffalo Skipper]

That is what puzzles me the most. I did call the UC, who is a close personal friend of mine, and in fact, we are co-workers (he retired 2 years ago, but he is here about 15 hours a week on an outside contract). He is someone with whom I speak almost daily on Scouting. He and I have taught classes together, and we almost always see things eye to eye. He agreed that there was no need for an ASM to be at a committee meeting unless specifically requested to attend. He hails from a troop with an extremely large and effective committee which is a model of effeciency; very different from ours.

 

There was no "sensitive" material on the agenda, but I can see where under certain circumstances there may be the need for a "closed" meeting. This was simply not that case.

[qwazse]

MT - "Ok, everyone knows I'm SM.. But SM is not part of the committee.. I work for you.. You can fire me anytime.. Any time. Really, if you want to fire me now, I'm gone.. Really any time.."

 

Yep, used that one once or twice. (And heard it used as well.)

 

As far as closed meetings. The only that we sanction are an exectutive session between CC, SM, and Treasurer if there's a boy in serious financial straights. At a meeting down the road, the Treasure may note "dispersed $x to help a scouts attend an activity persuant to executive sessions on (dates)." We've kinda gotten around that by just giving the SM a larger discretionary budget, but the policy is in place so that folks know they can ask for help if the see a kid needs it and don't have to worry about the family's buisness being broadcasted to a dozen folks.

[Eagledad]

I seem to remember we had a discussion a few years ago on this subject and a BSA expert on our forum at the time (Bob White) pointed out the rules do allow closed meetings if a unit chooses. In fact, I think he prefered it that way.

 

Barry

[ScoutNut]

No need to attend is VERY different from not allowed to attend.

 

Sorry, but my response to being told I was not allowed to attend ANY committee meetings would be that you are not allowed to expect me to volunteer my time.

 

When ALL Committee meetings (not just sensitive, confidential ones) are closed to parents, and ASM's, it does not give off a very Trustworthy feeling.

 

 

 

[Twocubdad]

Since he has "verified" this with the UC, it should be easy for him to provide you with the written documents they referenced.

 

Absent some compelling need for confidentiality os some extraordinary situation, I can't see why you would exclude an otherwise active and involved parent and leader from a committee meeting. Yes, there is some separation between the committee and scoutmaster side of the organization. ASM, for example, don't sit on boards of review. But for heaven's sake, this is a volunteer organization. Why on earth would exclude any interested volunteer from participating? Don't you want to encourage involvement?

[ntrog8r]

Buffalo Skipper,

 

Having just replied to your second question, I thought I'd check your original thread. In the same reference(BSA Troop Committee Guidebook For Successful Troop Operation, Copyright 1998, Boy Scouts of America, ISBN 0-8395-4505-3) you'll find this:

 

The committee meeting is attended by all committee members and the Scoutmaster. Occasionally you may want to invite guests such as your chartered organization representative and unit commissioner.

 

The Scoutmaster is not actually a member of the troop committee, and has no vote. The committee should not forget that its primary responsibility is supporting the troop program. The importance of mutual cooperation between the two groups of leaders is critical for the smooth and successful operation of the troop.

 

The support and administration of an active troop requires the participation of every committee member. Every member should have a working assignment. This will not only help the troop to operate effectively, but will assure team spirit and promote attendance at meetings. When people feel that it doesn't matter if they attend or not, often they will choose to do something else.

________________________________________________________________________________________

 

So the Scoutmaster is NOT a member of the Committee and does not have a vote. However, in Chapter 1 this nugget reads: Working as a team in support of the troop and its Scoutmaster, you can help your youth members to develop the confidence, skills, character, and mental fitness that will allow them to give quality leadership to a changing society.

 

I really like that "working" as a team part!

 

The Assistant Scoutmasters are NOT a member of the Committee, their role (see Chapter 3) is:

... to help operate the troop. Each assistant Scoutmaster is assigned specific program duties and reports to the Scoutmaster. They also provide the required two-deep leadership standards set by the Boy Scouts of America. An assistant Scoutmaster may be 18 years old, but at least one in each troop should be 21 or older, so he or she can serve in the Scoutmaster's absence.

Types of assistant Scoutmasters include:

Assistant Scoutmaster - New-Scout patrol

Assistant Scoutmaster - Venture patrol

 

A troop should recruit as many assistant Scoutmasters as possible. It has been found that many successful troops have three or more.

 

On online version of this guidebook can be found at:

http://www.math.msu.edu/~mccarthy/troop272/guidebook/

 

A training presentation on Troop Committees can be found at:

www.scoutmaster.org/UnitCommitteeTrainingApril2005.ppt

 

The guidebook does state who attends the meeting, it also states guests may be invited.

 

There are many good reasons to hold business meetings - and that's what this is - in a "closed" session. It limits distractions, it enables the agenda to get accomplished, the Committee (Board of Directors) may be handling issues that aren't everyone's business - discipline, funding, aid to a particular Scout, etc.

I dont know the people involved in your committee and won't try to guess their motivations but maybe the committee just doesn't want every parent showing up with their other children to "sit in" on the meetings and start asking a ton of questions not related to the business at hand, or having to ask them to leave during certain topics, etc.

Or maybe, as we Americans are quick to believe, there is an attempt to consolidate power and and control the organization in a secretive and illicit way. I'm not saying it doesn't happen - we really are suspicious and often for good cause. But how the TEAM works together is critical to success. Maybe the UC (who was quoted by the CC) and you all need to sit down together and figure out what's happening and why.

 

[CCbytrickery]

Our committee meetings are usually attended by the CM, ACM, CC, secretary, treasurer and the DLs. The ADLs are welcome, and some do attend. I've never seen a parent just come to attend, but I don't think we would throw them out if they did.

 

We do have "closed door" meetings, usually with the CC, CM and treasurer (and secretary if she's available). Those are for items that do not need to become common knowledge, like if someone is having a problem with a scout or if the scout is having financial trouble.

 

 

[Beavah]

Yah, BuffaloSkipper, just depends, eh?

 

Committees can be set up all kinds of different ways.

 

I know some unit committees that are essentially made up of the youth ministry team of da CO. They might be completely "closed."

 

Other committees are completely "open" to all parents and adult members and everybody gets a say/vote.

 

Just depends on da CO and how they want to structure it.

 

Generally speakin' I think in larger troops it's a good thing to have a committee that's selected rather than "open." Just helps avoid problems with new folks who aren't yet trained or others who are hard to work with and can monopolize group time. However, most of the discussion can be open, except when talkin' about kids or campership finances or whatnot.

 

If a committee is an "open" one, then not allowing SM or ASM to attend or vote I think is insulting to those hard-working volunteers. They typically have kids in the program, too, and they're giving more time than anyone on the committee. They should have a say. Just simple decency and fairness.

 

However, in the CO youth ministry committee, that wouldn't be the case, eh?

 

Just depends.

 

Beavah