Failing Units

[Abel Magwitch]

TAHawk writes - By the way, we also have several "troops" that have not met in dacades - literally - but get rechartered by former Scouts in the CO's because they don't what the dead troop to die. Never meet. But there are no forged names, just phony units.

 

I am even more curious - how can a dead unit re-charter without at least 5 youth? How can they exist with commissioner oversight? Are you saying that a DE is signing off on the troop's charter? Obviously the DE must know that the troop is dead. Sounds like there is still fraud happening in the council, wouldn't you agree?

 

So what you stated in your last post - the SE did not get fired; He was not held accountable; he is still working as a high paid SE somewhere else. I wonder if the executive board of his new council is aware of his past. I know if I were an executive board member, I would be upset to find out that the BSA did not tell us that the new SE was inflating membership at his last council.

 

And how did you hear he went to a small council? Did you ever try to google his name with the words boy scouts? Or are you taking what someone else has said.

 

I know that my own council has had some membership problems, but the whole thing was simply swept under the rug as if nothing had happened. The only volunteer people who were told of the problem were the council officers. The rest of the Scouting population was never told. And to top it off, the annual report never reported any losses, instead bold claims of membership increases were made instead.

 

Sounds like your council leadership has done a poor job of serving the traditional Scouts.

[TAHAWK]

Abel, thank you. The story about the small council came from a council officer (and he may believe the story.). I took your advice and find it is a much bigger council than ours. So, while he is not a region No. 2, he is doubtless getting more pay where he is now than he did here.

 

As for our "honorary" troops, there are youth registered and adults as well for each, but it is well-known that they do not meet.

 

One may wonder about the practical purpose of the corporation, as distinct from the volunteers.

[FScouter]

No "troop" gets recharted without someone paying the fees. What is it now, 10 buck a head? The DE sure isn't paying it.

[TAHAWK]

The fees for our "honorary" troops are paid by the adults at the respective CO's who want to see the troops "continue." I have not discussed with any of these gentlemen what the end game might be.

 

As for the fees for the phantom units and troops, someone was paying the fees. I personally examined rechartering papers for units that had every single name on the document forged. One "Scoutmaster" had been dead five years. One "Cubmaster" wanted to sue the DE who forged her signature.

[Eagle92]

Googling folks names plus "and scouts" will work wonders to track folks down. That's how I found out a DFS got promoted to SE then demoted to FD. Don't know why that happened, but I can guess. Too bad he is still employed by the BSA.

[FScouter]

So somebody wants to perpetuate a troop number with no boys. I'm wondering why this is a problem for any other troop. Sounds like a donation to the council. So what?

[BadenP]

Frank

 

Simple answer is because it is a lie, hoax, and a sham. A scout is Trustworthy, what these guys are doing is feeding their own egos, pretending to be true scouters so they can wear all their uniforms and awards is just so dishonest it is sickening.

 

They could always donate directly to the council to support scouting, but then they could not go on living in their fantasy scout world. Frank the idea you see nothing wrong with it causes me to even question your own integrity.

[FScouter]

So some old guy, former committee member wants to wear his old uniform, where? He/they pay their $50 or $100 bucks to "perptetuate an old troop number. This is a problem for our troop, for anyone - how?? Frankly, I don't believe it happens, but it makes a good story.

[Eagle92]

IMHO the problem lies with the fact that it is a paper unit. They are not recruiting folks, they are not active, they just exist.

 

 

[TAHAWK]

"Frankly, I don't believe it happens, but it makes a good story."

 

This is me caring whether you believe or not. (^___^)

[Eamonn]

Failing Units?

One problem with posting anything in a forum like this is that you can bet your last dollar that someone is going to post that it just isn't so.

So while I'm sure that in some places it isn't so.

Here where I live something is happening and it has been accepted as being the norm.What is happening is that units are failing at an alarming rate.

What gets me is that while Scouting in the area is going down and down, no one seems to know the reason and no one is doing anything.

I asked our District Chair to tell me what the problem is?

He puts it down to lack of manpower.

The District which once had over 40 active units now is down to about 10.

The District Committee which had about 45 members and an attendance of about 25 -30. (Not all members needed to attend each and every meeting.) Is now about a handful who turn up but either don't know how or are unwilling to get much done.

The District Commissioner leads a staff of four, mainly old timers who need a place to hang their hat.

It is a real shambles.

Attendance at R/T dropped to a level where it just wasn't worth meeting and was replaced with a monthly conference phone meeting.

Maybe the fact that there wasn't any staff to run the meetings was a big part of it?

The meeting became about announcements, so maybe a call was all that was needed.

The District Chair said that when the District was strong there was a choice from /of 100 people to do a job or task, today he can only pick from maybe ten and the quality just isn't there.

The problem seems to be across the board, new units fail.

This isn't anything new.

New units start mainly because a few people want too for what ever reason start a new unit. Most times it isn't some organization that comes knocking, it is just a handful of eager beavers.

From what I see the BSA seems willing to have a policy that's like planting flower seeds. You plant them all knowing that half the seeds are not going to make it and then even them that do are going to be thinned out.

What is very worrisome is that long time established units are also failing. Troops that used to have 20 - 30 Scouts now have 10 or 12 and only half of these bother to turn up.

While maybe I might not have been over joyed at what they were offering? The fact is that they had got by with that for a good many years and now it's just no longer working.

The Troop OJ was in had over 35 Scouts, went to summer camp with over 20 adults now has seven Scouts, five are little guys who crossed over.

I don't have the answer.

I have noticed that the joy that was once there, the feeling of comradeship has disappeared.

Scouting seems to have become a chore, like some kind of commitment that which while at times rewarding is a chore never the less.

The passion is lacking if not gone all together.

District support? Is now a DE who knows that his days are numbered. A District that is failing just can't afford to pay his salary. So now he hangs on for dear life pushing FOS and popcorn sales.

Training's that were once a time and place to bring people together and share have become something that is do alone, late night, not out of love but out of meeting the requirement.

New leaders come away knowing all the things that can't be done or shouldn't be done, but have no idea what they should or could be doing.

Camporees that provided a program base for some Troops have become joint District events. The local touch is gone. The offers to help far and few between.

While people have heard about this thing called "BSA Scout Branding". No one knows what it is.

Sure, we know that the buggy whip has gone. Still we wonder what happened to the horse?

What happened to having fun?

Not just the kids, but the adults as well.

The fear that someone will get hurt and someone will sue means that snowball fights, splish splashing in a creek or cooking bacon is now off the menu. The fact that no one knows or has met anyone who has been sued is never brought up.

Of course not all the units that we had back in the day, were great, some were nothing to write home about. Still like the clock that stopped they were right every now and then and for the Scouts that were members these units were their Scouting home.

While we all only have to look at the calender to know what the date is and like it or not it really is the 21st century, with i-pads and cell phones, still by now you would think that someone some where would sit down and look at what works and what doesn't and cut out the stuff that clearly isn't working.

I long for the day when kids go home filthy dirty, covered in Lord knows what? Absolutely dead tired and worn out having had a great time and maybe, just maybe as well as having had fun learned a little something.

Ea.

 

 

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello Eamonn,

 

 

I see all the things you describe in recent years in my district in varying degrees. I think there are lots of things contributing to the problems ---- demographics for one. We do a poor job of recruiting among Hispanics in particular and other minorities in general.

 

Another is the aging of the 'boomer generation. We are getting old and dropping out. The baby bust generation is substantially smaller in numbers.

 

I find we can build and run quality units, but it takes skilled and committed people, and they seem in short supply. But where they are at work, Scouting still thrives.

 

One of my aims has been to learn how to recruit and retain Hispanic youth and families, which would be a big help in my district. However, I can't do that on my own and while the council professionals are aware of the issue, they aren't actually doing anything about it and I can't get support to pursue the issue with volunteers. The pros have their own agenda and don't appear interested in having volunteers pursue issues they don't lead.

 

Sad.

 

 

 

[TAHAWK]

The council to our east, which once was three councils, has reached the point that it cannot afford DE's, so there aren't any - four total employees in the "council." Or is it five? Discussions are going on about rolling most of the council into the council where I do most of my Scouting. This could be good or Sears and K-mart.

 

The beginning of finding solutions is admitting there is a problem. But all I see and hear is happy talk and spin. Perhaps that is a reflection of the lack of ability at the level where national policy is made. Lord knows they seem quite certain in their omniscience.

 

The new emphasis on training can help - especially if the trainers are selected on the basis of merit.

[HerpetologyScout]

With respect to recruiting, I did not go through the cub scouts.

I joined my troop because one day I saw them all in uniform with backpacks hiking through my neighborhood. A couple of them I knew. They looked good, it instantly became something I wanted to belong to.

 

They were hiking to the camporee, and the next year, I was hiking with them to the camporee, and we were the only troop that hiked in.

 

At the time, it was a very active troop. Every month of the year had an outing and the only outings we didn't backpack in to was summer camp and the yearly snow camp.

 

Anyway, I just wanted to note what got me to join when I joined. Visibility. I saw a troop doing something as a group and I wanted to belong.

 

I was from a poor family, the troop provided me with a uniform, scout manual, and loaned me a backpack. The reason they could help me to that extent was because there was very good fundraising in the troop. We did walk-a-thons, paper drives, plastic bottle drives, all of which brought in both money and provided visibility.

 

If you have a troop having trouble recruiting new members, make sure you are visible to the boys in your area. Many of them, like I was, are likely looking to belong to something. Let them know you are there. Let them belong to you, and not the street gangs that seem to be increasing and spreading.

[SeattlePioneer]

>

 

 

At least in my council, council politics is not something volunteers are encouraged to discuss or participate in. Perhaps decisions about budgets, program emphasis, program and such are deemed too complicated or controversial for volunteers to participate in. I think that's silly.

 

Councils have certain democratic forms and appearances, but they are mostly shams in practice.

 

Decisions appear to be made pretty much by the council Scout Executive presumably with oversight by the council executive board. My council works pretty well, but if my council were having serious problems it would probably mean that the Scout Executive and Executive Board were making poor decisions. If they are, it appears that until the financial problems bite, little will be done.