Troop choice conundrum

[ScoutLass]

Forgive me if I ramble....

 

My Webelos son takes scouting seriously, sometimes maybe a bit too much. He took every cub scout patch he earned seriously, no fudging on requirements and being disappointed when he felt his leader short changed him and gave him a patch he hadn't quite earned yet.

 

He decided a couple years ago which troop he was going to, mainly because that is where his friends are going and because his den leader is also an ASM in the troop. Lately, though, he's been doubtful.

 

My son is smaller than the other boys and just not that interested in sports stuff. He's athletic, but he's not into competition with others, only with himself. Naturally, he's running into the challenge that most 9 and 10 year old boys are more competitive. His den played football and soccer, and he was hurt when his leader told him he wasn't even trying. He felt he was trying, He just wasn't that good and upset no one took the time to tell him what he was doing wrong. This isn't the first time he's felt that way. He feels his DL singles him out for criticism.

 

It isn't about whether this DL is right or wrong, it's more about how my son is perceiving it. The DL is a great guy, but doesn't understand how to work with a type A personality kid. A personality clash has arisen between the two and a recent troop visit has just made it worse. I'm not sure the leader is even aware it exists.

 

My son is very sure of what he wants from a Scouting troop. He wants to camp, but not just at the same two or three locations. He wants high adventure once he has learned the skills. He has dreams of whitewater rafting and hiking in the Cascades. He has spent hours online reading about what to expect from scouting and reading the blogs of various troops around the country.

 

I wasn't able to accompany him on his troop visit, so I can give him advice on what he saw. We have scheduled a second troop visit at his request with me there. His impression was the troop goes to the same two or three camping spots each month, participates in the same events each year, and doesn't do high adventure type trips. He said the meeting didn't follow the meeting plans he read online, that instead everyone stood up and gave boring speeches about what they were working on (he thought, but wasn't sure, that it was for a MB), then they all left. He was upset that there was no scoutcraft or games going on, which is what he had found online to expect from a troop meeting. He was also upset the boys just sat in a group and never split into patrols. I tried explaining that troop meetings aren't like cub meetings, but all I got was the eyeroll and the "I know Mom, but this was like a PTA meeting!"

 

To make matters worse, no one from the troop greeted him. He and the other boys that came in the den were set in the back and told to be quiet. He wasn't introduced to the SPL or SM. He had no SM conference, so he doesn't feel it satisfied the AOL requirement. He had painstakingly assembled a list of questions about the troop he wanted to ask the SM and SPL, but was never given the opportunity.

 

We talked about it and decided to go back for a second meeting. That maybe as a single scout checking out the troop he'll be treated differently than as a member of a den crashing a meeting. He has also decided to check out a few other troops. In the end, the decision is his, but he is very torn and upset. There have been some tears. He gets upset before his cub meetings, afraid he'll be asked if he's still going to the troop in the fall with everyone else and he doesn't know what to say. At home, he's been assembling a list of troops and calling to request to attend a meeting.

 

The decision is his. He knows what he wants, he knows what to ask, what to look for. My husband and I offer him advice, but bite our tongues and don't force a decision on him. This is the hardest decision he has ever had to make in his near 11 years. He asked us if we would force him to go to a better troop. When we told him no, he got upset and mumbled "It'd be easier if you did."

 

We have some troop visits planned. Part me hopes the next visit at the DL's troop goes better. Another part of me hopes one of the other troops blows him away so excitement can carry him through joining a troop of boys he doesn't know. I guess what I need are words of wisdom to share with him. There ain't no magic words to make a difficult decision easier, but I'll take what I can get. Watching my little guy become a young man is painful, even as it makes me swell with pride.

[UCEagle72]

Let him visit as many Troops as possible in order to see the "variety" in Scout troops. Heck, if that means going to visit 12 troops -- do it.

 

That is the only way he will find the right troop -- and if he was ignored on his recent troop visit, I doubt I would go back for a second visit!

 

[Tampa Turtle]

Agreed --visit different Troops. Each has a different culture. If there is something that rubs you or your boy raw it rarely gets better.

 

My son agonized over two good troops. One was very spit and polish but heavy car campers. Very nice boys. The other had many more campouts, high adventure, but the boys were more rough and tumble. He chose the 2nd as he wanted more of a personal challenge. Both were good, each had its flaws, but were unique.

 

Let your son look. And if he makes a wrong choice it is not for life; we always get a few transfers in both directions every year.

[Lisabob]

What you have written about his recent troop visit would be enough for me to want to look elsewhere, too.

 

Maybe the hardest part for him is having to explain his choice to the others. You might be able to help him develop some friendly responses that don't seem to bash the DL's troop, but are also honest about what he wants from scouting. Sooner or later, everyone has to make good choices that fit their needs, rather than just staying with the group because "we've always been together."

 

It might also help him to think ahead a little ways (he sounds like a thinker). He's getting to an age where people start going in their own directions. Probably some of the boys he goes to school with, will opt for private high schools. They are eventually going to move on to college, and they'll all pick what works best for them. That's just part of life & growing up. And just because people branch out, they can still retain older friendships. Joining a different troop doesn't prevent him from hanging out with his cub buddies from time to time, too.

 

Good for you, that you are giving him room to grow. It isn't easy, but it sounds like you really understand your young man.

 

 

[ScoutNut]

Encourage him to visit as many Troops as possible, and ask as many questions there as possible. Every Troop is different. However, you might also remind him that very few Troops follow the "ideal", or published, meeting outline. He should not go into this expecting to find a Troop that meets, or exceeds, everything he has read about on the 'net. He should go with an open mind, and look at the whole Troop, and it's entire program.

 

 

[liquidzoo]

I was lucky when I joined scouting. The same organization sponsored both the pack and troop, and the troop was excellent.

 

I agree with what was said, though. If the troop is not living up to your son's expectations, support his efforts to find one that does. I only hope my own son is as mature when it comes time for him to graduate into Boy Scouts.

[neil_b]

I am impressed that your son has done so much research on his own and knows what he wants. However, troops aren't going to advertise on their web site that they have boring meetings and don't use the patrol method.

 

Also, don't think that the issues with the den leader will not be a problem if he crosses over with his den into the troop. My son crossed over with his den into a pretty good troop that used the patrol methods on all outings. But within a year his den leader took over as the new scoutmaster and he turned it into Webelos III. He drove away numerous people and things didn't start to turn around until he left.

 

So, if your son doesn't like his den leader he might not want to cross over into a troop with him.

[ScoutLass]

Scoutnut, that's exactly why I advised a second troop visit to the DL's troop. He was mainly upset that it appeared they were doing MB work in a meeting. My thought is maybe several boys had decided to do the same MB and the boys in the troop had decided to dedicate the time in the meeting to letting the boys meet a requirement or some such. I think part of him expects chaos, because he has read so many things from scouters stating the hallmark of a boy-led troop is controlled chaos and not the orderly behavior of adults!

 

Lisabob, yep, he's thinker and planner. It's a challenge, because he is already planning his high school and college years. We have given many lessons on the "best laid plans...." in our home! The school thing isn't an issue, as he hasn't gone to school with any of the boys in our pack. One troop we are checking out is based out of his new elementary school that he starts in fall. If it's a good fit, the younger 5th and 6th grade boys in the troop would likely be in the same school as him.

 

On a bright note, I had an SM of a troop he called last night call me back this morning to verify the meeting info with me. The SM said he was at first taken aback to have a cub scout boy calling him, as it's usually the parent. Then he said he was impressed not just that he called, but how he handled himself on the phone.

[ScoutLass]

Neil, those were my thoughts, too. We brought up with him the chance the DL could one day be SM. We think that is another thing making this a hard choice for him. He's torn between loyalty and his needs and wants.

 

[Stosh]

When I was in the market to buy a new house a few years back, my realtor told me we were going to visit a lot of houses. We would not be spending a lot of time looking around inside, just walk in the front door, breeze through and out the back. He told me that when I walk into a house that is right for me, I'll know it immediately. Unless I have that feeling, no house will have that "just right" feeling no matter how long I live there. I did what he asked and I found the perfect house. It was at that point, I went back for a second more in-depth look.

 

I'm thinking this advice would be good for your boy. If he has "reservations" about a troop he visits, he will always have those reservations for as long as he participates in that troop. The decision should not be difficult at that point. "Mom! this is the troop I want! It's not perfect, but I'm going to be happier here than anywhere else!"

 

Best of luck with his decision. It sounds like whatever troop gets him is going to be better off because of it.

 

Stosh

[dg98adams]

Not defending the Troop, but Boy Scouting is very different than Cub Scouting.

 

If it's done right, it won't look polished and organized, and 1 meeting is not a snap shot of the Troop.

 

If a Troop goes to the same spots for camping it might be the PLC,(which is made up of the Patrol Leaders) feel comfortable planning that outing. It's up to the Scouts to plan for a variety of events/locations....

 

It might also be a non-existent PLC has a Scout Master that plans the same outing over and over.

 

Most Troops need several months of planning/skill-development before Scouts go on a High Adventure trip.

 

What your son may be experiencing, is some Troops just ASSUME Webelos will join the Troop and the Troop takes their joining for granted. That's why he needs to find a Troop that WANTS new Scouts instead of expecting them to just show up.

 

We have 50 Scouts in the Troop where I am one of several Assistant Scout Masters.

2/3rds of that is 1st and 2nd year Scouts...

The Troop seems to go to our local Scout campground every year for camp.... their choice.

We now have 9+ from the Troop/Crew on staff. So far 1-2 times a year they do something new like a out-of-council camporee or high-adventure trip.

 

(This message has been edited by dg98adams)

[ScoutNut]

>>"He was mainly upset that it appeared they were doing MB work in a meeting"

[Twocubdad]

Sounds like your son had done a lot of good research and has a pretty good picture of what this troop is about. There's no excuse for the SPL and SM not to welcome the new boys. But for the sake of balance let me make a few observations:

 

All troops have off nights. It's really tough to balance the interest/entertainment value of a troop program against letting the boys run the show. There are requirements for scouts to give presentations to the troop, and maybe the boys had decided that was to be the program for the night your son was there. Remind your son that while he's learning basic Scout skills, that nervous 13-year-old in front of the room is learning to lead a group and to make presentations. His day at the front of the room will come.

 

Our theme this month has been fire safety. My instruction to the PLC was to make it exciting -- go burn stuff, blow things up -- not the same Sparky the Firedog bit they got in the third grade. So if you came to to last week's meeting, the local fire department was there letting the boys practice using a fire extinguisher to put out a fire and trying their hand at handling a 2" fire hose. Way cool.

 

But, had you been there the week before, the meeting featured the boys sitting in chairs hearing a fireman discuss the "fire quadragle" (formerly a triangle, I didn't really catch what the new fourth leg is). No where near as sexy as putting out a barrel of flaming diesel fuel.

 

But it takes both. You want to shoot shotguns, you have to sit through the safety lecture. You want to go whitewater canoeing, you have to watch Safety Afloat.

 

I tell my Scouts troop meetings are to a team practice as camping trips are to the game. Yeah, we do our best to make practice/meetings fun, but there is some element of doing the hard, sometimes boring stuff which is required for the payoff of the big game or high adventure trip.

 

I call it the Mountain Dew Effect. Kids see a 30 second Mountain Dew commercial with a bunch of kids riding their bikes down the side of El Capitan and think that's what high adventure is about. Hit the button on the remote and you're suddenly bungie jumping off the New River Bridge. But those commercials and similar HA trips take months of preparation and work to pull off.

 

I'm not saying your son is falling for this. He sounds like a sharp kid who knows what he wants. But help him with a little reality check to ensure that his expectation for Scouting aren't to high for any troop to meet.

[Eagle92]

As others have mentioned, yes shop around. I joined the troop that everyone else in my den joined. It wasn't a good fit, and got worse after a few months. I quit, then got hooked up with my cousin's troop. BEST DECISION I EVER MADE!

 

So look around.

 

One caveat though, I wouldn't expect a HA trip every year. They take time and $. Also sometimes troops will band together to form a contingent, or one troop will have openings. So if a "troop" doesn't go on a HA trip, ask if anyone form the troop has.

[BrotherhoodWWW]

Not sure what part of town you live in but there once were a number of great troops in Spokane. Well at least back when I was a youth. I'm not sure I would return to that same troop either. It sounds to me more of a third year Webelos program. Sometimes you can find more quality in smaller troops.

 

Spokane Troop 1 SPL 1980-81