Majority Rule

[AnnLaurelB]

I've been thread-diving, tonight, and I came across a great line. To quote PackSaddle: "The policy of the individual is subordinate to the policy of the establishment."

 

Love it! And here's why it struck me. The other night, I gave out copies of our list of Summer Gatherings. The Fall Kick-off is going to be at a local swimming hole, and I put on there, "Celebration of Summer Birthdays." We'll miss a few of the boys' birthdays over the break. We're CUBBIES! We like birthdays. We like cake.

 

I had one mom come up to me and tell me that she was concerned how that would be handled. I sort of scratched my head, and said, "Handled?" Well it turns out (this Cub just joined about 8 weeks ago, so I don't know the family very well yet) that they JUST joined the Jehovah's Witness church... and they've given up birthdays. Which she admitted is, "...still kind of painful."

 

I came away sort of worrying that I needed to amend the birthday thing...but at EVERY Pack meeting, we've celebrated that month's birthdays. But I shouldn't need to change that for one kid, should I?

 

Is this an example of the "policy of the individual" needing to be subordinate to the "policy of the establishment"? I work within the parameters of the CO, which is the UMC, and we love our birthday cakes. I absolutely want to be sensitive to their family beliefs, but on the other hand, doesn't majority rule?

[SSScout]

Very interesting post. If you ask the Cub's mom, you'll also find out that they won't be celebrating Jesus' birthday , either. Not least reason being, we don't really know when it is, really.

I would ask her, is she glad her son was born? Then the acknowledgement of the boy's birth need not be a super brouhaha, merely an acknowledgement that, "hey, we're glad you're here". Same for the rest of the Pack, "hey, we're glad you're all here". No singing, then go swim.

Cake is optional. No exchange of gifts.

[ScoutLass]

I'll be first to admit I know very little about the Jehovah's Witnesses, but I was close friends with a girl that was one throughout elementary school. When we had school birthday parties, she would share in the cake, etc, but wouldn't sing the birthday song. For herself, she wouldn't bring in cake on her birthday like the other kids did.

 

I would say keep doing things as you have done them. If you do a cake with the boys' names on it, ask if she'd prefer you left her son's name off. Other than that, it's up to her to decide how to handle the singing, etc. She may prefer to take her son out of the room during the song, or she may prefer to just sit silently by.

[Twocubdad]

What did the mom suggest? If she doesn't want you to include her son, it's a reasonable request. Less so if she wants you to stop mentioning birthdays all together.

 

I think your old reference to PackSaddle is close to the heart of the matter. We should accommodate individuals, but the whole group shouldn't necessarily conform to their wishes. If you drop everthing objected to by someone, sooner or later you'll run out of things to do.

 

On the mom's side of the ledger, I will say birthday announcements may be fun, but they aren't really a core part of the program. Now if she come back and tells you they are uncomfortable with the Pledge of Allegiance or with the boys making an oath (i.e., Cub Scout Promise) -- which, from what little I understand about the Witnesses, is not out of the questions -- I'd have to go to the mat over that.

[Oak Tree]

It strikes me that this is similar to the "reasonable accommodation" required by the American with Disabilities Act (ADA).

 

It's reasonable to shift a work meeting to another time. It's not reasonable to expect other workers to change what their work hours are.

 

It's reasonable to alter the marginal parts of the job. It's not reasonable to alter the essential parts of the job.

 

The law doesn't apply to Scouts, but the principle seems pretty reasonable.

[Eagle007]

I aplaud Ann's sensitiviy to the needs of her scouts, especially the need to make them feel comfortable. I have recently often had those thoughts of making people feel comfortable when I open roundtable meetings with the Pledge of Allegiance, Scout Law, Scout Oath and a prayer. The prayer is what has had me perplexed as I have members of LDS come to the meetings and am ignorant of their beliefs.

 

But I don't want to people to mistake my kindness and sensitivity for my weakness. As RT Commish I will continue to open the meetings in this way and if one doesn't wish to participate in a Christian prayer or has no belief in being reverent with prayer then I respect their right to express themself in their own way. I ask a different attendee to offer a prayer no matter what background they have and haven't been refused to this date.

 

As to Ann's quandry, I agree with Packsaddle. If the estblishment doesn't fit one's needs and it is contrary to what one believes then find an accommodating establishment or organization. In my opinion we don't need to cater to every whim and need nor walk on egg shells for opposing individuals.

[moosetracker]

The only suggestion I would make, is to put the birthday celebration as first thing or last thing, where if they want to come late or early to miss it, then they have that option.. Otherwise, they can go for a small walk if they wish to be abscent during the celebration, or can sit quietly and observe. It is up to them to figure out what they need to do to be comfortable with the situation..

 

They need to be able to function in a world that will not cater to their every whim, and will hold opinions different then theres.. We have had families that were against Halloween, or Jewish Families that did not do Christmas.. Either they chose not to attend the pack meeting celebrating this, or we would add something where we could also include Chanukah to the celebration and make it educational and reverent.

 

Reverence of everyone is what they must learn along with you, so I don't see where you have to change for them, but allowing them options to quietly remove themselves from an uncomfortable situation is respecting their beliefs.

[AnnLaurelB]

Thanks, guys. :0)

 

Part of it is that I wasn't sure what their interpretation of the non-birthday thing would be; they only just joined the JW's and they only just joined Cub Scouts, recently.

 

We don't put names on the cake; or it might be cupcakes, or giant cookies or whatever. We have usually sang Happy Birthday, but in a compromise, that could be left out.

 

I think because the family is new to that belief system, is why the question of how OUR birthday stuff would be "handled". Someone who's been around that block a few times would already know that the compromise is to, as was suggested: arrive late/leave early/don't put his name on the cake/just don't sing, etc... And they would simply do it quietly with their kid.

 

But she's still learning those ropes.

[Stosh]

The part of processes like these is that one individual makes a choice and then unilaterally expects others to automatically do the same in their choices. Everyone should have equal opportunity to make their own choices.

 

Maybe you don't celebrate birthdays, but others do. If because of your beliefs choose one way, it would be a inappropriate to expect everyone to give up their beliefs to adhere to yours. Thus we have freedom of religion/speech/etc. for all people - equally.

 

Harsh response on my part? Harsh against whom? The one individual or harsh against the concept of majority rule/freedom of religion?

 

Maybe you don't celebrate your birthday, but we as a group do... celebrate your birthday. If you think it's wrong, pass on the cake. But I'm going to have a cookie in your honor because I believe it's important... to me.

 

Your mileage may vary,

 

Stosh

 

 

[momof2cubs]

Ann, while I admire your desire to not leave anyone out, on this one it is just not reasonable. Put yourself in the shoes of the little boy whose birthday is in July (or June or August). Chances are that celebrating their birthday is hard. They don't get to bring a treat to school. They don't get to get sang to in their classroom by all their friends. They have a hard time coordinating a birthday party since it's summer and people go on vacation. I know about this since my son was born in July (July 3rd of all days - makes it extra hard).

 

Now this little boy HAD been looking forward ALL YEAR to be celebrated at the pack just like all his friends have been. And now....it doesn't happen???? How would you feel?

 

I have the same suggestions as everyone else. Keep the birthday celebration the EXACT same way as you have been doing. Except maybe move it to the end so that the JW family can choose to leave early if they want to. But don't skip it. A reasonable accommodation that is not (read last sentence is Yoda voice).

 

So explain to the mom and give her the option of leaving early/coming late if she must. Like someone else said if you start excluding activities because someone objects to them, you will soon run out of things to do. I like that phrase.

[AnnLaurelB]

Blake and Mom;

 

My knee-jerk reaction was *exactly* as you both state...but you know in such a PC society, we're often caught jaw-dropped when people fuss over things.

 

I love the "I'm going to have a cookie in your honor, because your birthday IS important... to me." Love. :0)

 

And MY son IS one of the ones whom we have always had the hardest time finding guests for birthday parties; he's an August baby, and it was FOR him, specifically, that I added the "birthday" clause to the fall-kick off.

 

He IS looking forward to celebrating his birthday with his Cub pals, and I don't want to take that away from my own kid. :0)

 

(Cubmaster comes with it's privileges!)

[perdidochas]

I like Momtwocubs' suggestion. It doesn't make the one family take away from the entire thing, but allows tolerance to the family's views. It is a reverent way to do it.

[OldGreyEagle]

I don't know if there are any Vegan based religions, but what if there was one and while they did celebrate birthdays, the cakes had to be, of course, Vegan. Do you make all cupcakes from that point Vegan or only during the month of a Vegans birth?

 

The Troop I serve has meetings on Thursday, we don't meet on Thanksgiving. What if a family joins who doesnt think Thanksgiving is legitimate, we hold the meeting for them? We cancel Holy Thursday as well as the church is holding services. Do we hold the meeting for the Jewish and Islamic and Hindu Scouts?

 

As mentioned, you have your schedule, the birthday celebration sounds like a great ending and then people can choose to stay or go

 

Speaking of Yoda, what was it that Spock said?

 

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few

[AnnLaurelB]

Thank you; I was sure I wasn't alone in this thinking.

 

That said, I will probably refrain from telling her that I joined the Methodist Church (from a stricter background) so that I could cuss a little and drink a little.

 

BWAHahahahahaha! ;-)

[qwazse]

Scouting is actually a good place where you could tell people that, but timing and method are important so you're saying it out of humility and not putting people down.

 

That's what campfires are for.

 

Anyway, the fact that your are trying to work out a balance will speak loads to the mom.