Eagle Scout= SPL?

[OldGreyEagle]

isn't the real issue the youth's desire to run for SPL and the troops inclination to elect him?

[BDPT00]

Eagle is a rank. It's not a free pass to "just be a Scout."

Becoming Eagle doesn't mean they've graduated. It means they've earned the next rank. They should be active in their troop, just like all of the other Scouts, and if that means running for SPL, so be it. Personally, I think PL would be even better. Den Chief or Troop Guide would be great too.

Don't put them out to pasture. Use their talents to make your troop better. Allow them to serve ... it comes with the rank.

BDPT00

[NJCubScouter]

Well said BDPT.

[jrush]

BDPT, the problem with that is that they HAVE earned the right to "just be a Scout". True, they should continue to serve in positions of responsibility (elected or appointed) if they wish to, but they shouldn't be pressured (or worse yet, forced) to.

 

"just being a Scout" is exactly that...coming to meetings, participating in outdoor activities. There's nothing wrong with an Eagle who wants to stay in his patrol and help a younger PL be a success simply by setting the example of being a good follower. I didn't say "hang the uniform up and move on with life".

[Eagledad]

>>BDPT, the problem with that is that they HAVE earned the right to "just be a Scout".

[BDPT00]

I didn't say pressured or forced either. What I sense from some of the postings is that they've achieved some sort of "exempt" status... kinda like senioritis. Being exempt or receiving a free pass from responsibility is exactly the opposite of what their Eagle Charge says, or doesn't that apply until they're well out of Scouts? Frankly, I think that JASM in most troops means that they're no longer "forced" to be in a patrol, and they no longer come under the jurisdiction of the SPL. They're different, privileged, special, or exempt.

Those aren't the words I'm hearing, but it's the feeling I'm getting from what I read.

Dispute this: a Scout is a Scout. What difference does it make what patch they wear on their left pocket? (and/or for that matter, the patch they used to wear on their left sleeve?)

BDPT00

[qwazse]

Well obviously the point here is to help folks rethink what we've been doing and let us realize there's a lot of lattitude. A lot of our troop policies have to do with the way our SMs want to operate. Sometimes what the SM does is just what the previous SM did. So ideas from outside the troop are a breath of fresh air.

 

Our JASMs do just fine as patrol members. In fact by age sixteen they're in about three "patrols" (e.g. their O/A lodge, their crew, and their troop's patrol). The point is that because of their other associations, they have an opportunity to bring unique talents to troop life. (E.g., the backpacker, EMT, life guard, scholar.)

 

That's what makes the position privelaged. There's no counting service hours, you just see a need and tackle it. There's no board of reviews to look forward to, you just talk to a committee member about setting something up. If you think there's something cool your patrol could do, you help your PL get a solid plan to the SM.

 

And, if you think you could do the SPL thing really well (even if you've done it before, even if you don't need it for rank advancement), you throw your hat in the ring.

 

Now, I expect a little of that from every 16+ year old. There is no such thing as "just being a scout" at that age without showing some kind of leadership. Most of the time that results in a patch on your sleave. But if you don't want one (maybe work/school schedule get's in the way), that's fine. I'll still expect you to take charge in some way when you show up.

[jrush]

I would counter that while the JASM has certain priviledges, he also has a new set of responsibilities. Arguably, he shouldn't be in a patrol watching or helping them make their menu for the upcoming campout, he should be with adults approving that menu. He should be able to perform any of the duties of an ASM except where age and maturity are legally and ethically required.

[TAHAWK]

"I echo quazse's recommendation of looking at what your troop's adult leadership is.

If the vision is rank advancement, then keeping Eagle scouts from holding POR's makes sense, as the troop has achieved its aim of making Eagle scouts.

If the vision is development of leadership skills, then the troop would allow all eligible scouts to hold any position which will help him develop and improve leadership skills, and even encourage the best to run,.

If the vision is a delivering a great outdoors program, then the troop would encourage those that have demonstrated the enthusiasm, skills, and ability to run for SPL, regardless of their rank.

You can see where this is going - define first your vision (guided by the aims of scouting), and then determine how you will implement the methods to help you achieve the vision."

 

In a Boy Scout Troop?

 

Oh "your adult's leadership" Got it.

[TAHAWK]

Is not attaining 16 years of age a requirement to be a JASM, or did that change in the last few months?

[jrush]

Yes, it's 16.

 

Troops often add an additional requirement that the young man be an Eagle, but that's not a BSA requirement.

 

IIRC the BSA also requires that the JASM follow all BSA policies regarding driving, 2-deep leadership, sleeping quarters, etc.

[NJCubScouter]

jrush says:

 

IIRC the BSA also requires that the JASM follow all BSA policies regarding driving, 2-deep leadership, sleeping quarters, etc.

 

I am not sure what you mean by "follow." You mean, follow as an adult? The JASM is still a youth member so for youth protection and safety purposes they are still considered a youth. (Or at least I have never seen anything to the contrary.) Or did you mean something else?

 

On the other hand, to whoever referred to JASM's as being in a patrol... I don't think they are supposed to be in a patrol. For THAT purpose they are treated as an adult leader. (Or at least, not a regular patrol. I am not sure whether a JASM can be in a Venture Patrol (as opposed to a Venture Crew, in which capacity they are acting as a crew member, not a troop member.))

[qwazse]

NJ whoever referred to JASM's as being in a patrol... I don't think they are supposed to be in a patrol.

 

Find me chapter and verse and I'll run screaming to our SM to boot those JASMs out of their respective patrols ASAP.

 

Until then I'll quote you under my "Don't ask someone for a rule, they'll make one up for you." theory.

[Eagledad]

>>Yes, it's 16

[jrush]

NJCubscouter and quazse, that's why I said "IIRC"...I could be completely wrong...I should've said "IMO". My bad.

 

Given the BSA's description of the position, JASMs are for all intents and purposes 16 year old ASMs. IMO, if they're going to function as ASMs, they should act like ASMs. So, while they aren't required to take YPT, they *should* start to be cognizant of such requirements...because they are acting as ASMs. They are a different critter than a 16 year old Troop Guide. In a nutshell, they are part of the adult leadership group, not the youth leadership group (as the TG is). I don't think you're going to find a "rule" or "guideline" that JASMs aren't in Patrols, it's just that many troops don't because the whole point behind the Patrol Method is for the patrol to function under it's elected leader...including those "learning the hard way" moments and the PL actually being in charge of everyone in his patrol...which is affected when you have someone sitting in the patrol who doesn't typically answer to the PL. If they're acting as a working member of the patrol under the PL why would they be a JASM? A JASM could be assigned to an individual patrol as a guide/mentor to the PL (just like a TG), but if they're functioning as a TG why wouldn't they be wearing a TG POR patch? While there's no "rule" against a JASM being in a patrol, I just don't see what the purpose is. Bottom line, I mistakenly assumed some "shoulds" and "requires" into the position of JASM because of the difference in the JASM and Troop Guide positions.

 

 

Eagledad, the troop doesn't have to have a JASM. It's an optional POR. A troop could have multiple ASPLs, TGs, Instructors and Den Chiefs, so there's no shortage of things for those Eagle Scouts to do if they want a POR.