Eagle Scout= SPL?

[troop366eagle]

Hi guys, didn't know if this belongs under Open Discussion or rank, but I figured I would start here.

 

Should an Eagle Scout be able to be an SPL of a troop? Looking at it, reasonably the Eagle should have the best leadership, or at least better than some younger scouts.

 

Is this reasonable? Or should there be some parameters? My troop is running into some un-addressed issues that have never been brought up before, as we have many younger (15 year-old) Eagle Scouts that are still active.

 

Thanks!

[moosetracker]

As long as the Eagle scout is under 18 then there are no rules against it. And if they are not 16 yet, they can't take the position of JASM..

 

Nothing for or against it.

 

As you say, they may make the better leader "maybe"..

 

But, then on the other hand, it is a great position for someone Star or Life who is aspiring to become Eagle, and the Eagle scouts can be great Troop Guides, Guiding the younger scouts to becoming better leaders..

 

When they reach 16 they can them become JASMS, so there is some good positions for those already at Eagle rank.. And many ways that they can mentor the younger scouts or non-Eagle scouts..

 

How large is your troop? Is it hard for the other scouts that need positions to get a position because there are more scouts then positions?

 

 

 

 

[NJCubScouter]

Actually this issue has come up recently in our troop. One leader expressed the opinion that because the (in this case) 15-year-old Eagle Scout does not need a POR anymore, they should not be eligible for SPL. I took the opposite viewpoint, that there is no reason why he should not be eligible. POR's are not really an issue in our troop, the leaders find POR's for those who need them. And even if electing an Eagle as SPL would shut out someone else from a POR, the boys would (or should) know that and if its a factor for them, they can vote for someone else. (That's one of the great things about democracy, people can vote for candidates for good reasons or bad reasons, or reasons that someone else may think are bad, it's up to them. I think in Boy Scouts we sometimes try to save the boys from themselves in this regard, but if we do that, how are they going to learn?)

 

The outcome of the story was that my viewpoint won out, but the young man (who I do not think ever knew this discussion took place) decided to take a pass on SPL and will probably spend his last few years as Instructor and then JASM, and earn some palms, and whatever other activities he is into at high school. Sounds like a reasonable choice to me (and running for SPL would have been reasonable as well.)

[OldGreyEagle]

Please do not make me channel Kudu, oops too late...

 

Not let an Eagle Scout run for SPL because he doesnt need a POR?

 

What part about Boy Lead do they not understand? The troop does not exist to make Eagles, it exists to provide the program, there is a difference

[KC9DDI]

Sure, why not? If the Eagle Scout is the best candidate for the job, and is elected by the rest of the troop, why not?

 

I guess a more interesting question would be what are the real "un-addressed issues" that are prompting this question?

[desertrat77]

Yes, an Eagle can be SPL. Keeps him engaged in the program, and he serves as a visible example for the scouts. Could also prevent that "what do I do now?" feeling that happens to many scouts after they make Eagle.

 

JASM can be a good job, but it can be a "Maytag Repairman" gig in that there may not be a heck of alot to do, depending on how a troop utilizes their graduated Eagles.

[qwazse]

POR (or lack thereof) may govern rank, but rank should not govern POR (or lack thereof).

 

Likewise, we don't offer JASM to every 16+ y.o. Eagle. You have to be willing to stay part of the life of the troop. We may offer it to non-eagles.

[moosetracker]

That is a troop decision how they wish to utilize the JASM position. In our troop no one gets JASM unless they are EAGLE rank & 16+.. Older boys who are not EAGLE can be Troop Guide.. Troops utilize positions as they see fit.

 

But, the title of this thread is "Eaglescout = SPL?" and I don't believe that an EAGLE rank means you deserve SPL over those who are not Eagle rank.. Just that if you want to and are still under 18, you have the right to run for it, but also have other position options available.

 

The Rank should not give you a right to hijack the election and cut any of the boys below the rank from the right to run..

[Wëlënakwsu]

Do not recall what the Handbooks say... but in principle the SPL eligibility requisites should probably be left to the BOY SCOUTS, ie the Troop's youth members, not the adults.

[neil_b]

That is interesting. I wish we had this problem in our troop. Count yourself lucky that you have Eagle scouts who are willing to stick around and still be involved. And don't forget that you can have as many ASPL's and Quartermasters as you want or as many as you need to give boys positions for rank if that's how you like to do things.

[qwazse]

This depends on what your troop's vision is. If you believe candidates for Eagle are entitled to an opportunity to hold the "point position" in the troop, then you want to increase the odds of that happening by asking guys who earned their Eagle to sit out the elections.

 

If you believe that Eagles should have opportunities to "man point" during their scouting career. Then you should invite them to throw their hat in the ring.

 

If you believe that a position has more to do with what a boy can contribute, you'll minimize rank restrictions in making assignments. If you believe it has more to do with certain things a boy should be trying at certian ranks, you'll be make policies in that direction.

 

E.g. if an ex-SPL is really good at organizing camp or planning events, I'd make him a JASM without any consideration of what's on his left pocket. It sounds like eagles are expected to do that in MT's troop, so they are de-facto JASM's once they meet age requirements. If I see a 17 y.o. Eagle who really gets a kick out of showing cross-overs the ropes, I'd call him a troop guide. MT's troop would say he's advanced beyond that.

 

And if a guy says he wants to be JASM and winds up doing basic troop guide stuff I wont make him switch patches! (I honestly don't think MT's troop would either.)

 

Since I don't like when people make extra rules for me, I discourage SM's from making extra rules for the boys. Sometimes, however, a nice orderly progression makes things run smoother. So sit and think about what suits your leadership best. Get the boys' o.k. Work your plan. If it annoys you, adjust.

[Stosh]

I would think it would depend on the Scout's qualifications just like any other position in the unit.

 

If he is an Eagle and never been a PL, how can he be a senior PL?

 

One needs to look at the function of the position and the qualifications/talents the Scout possesses.

 

Just because someone needs POR and/or some other non-functional expectations, i.e. age, rank, social status, etc., isn't qualification sufficient for the job. Too often it's like some marriages. One picks a spouse hoping they'll change, grow up, or whatever. When it doesn't happen, only bad things can happen.

 

Your mileage may vary,

 

Stosh

[Venividi]

I echo quazse's recommendation of looking at what your troop's adult leadership is.

If the vision is rank advancement, then keeping Eagle scouts from holding POR's makes sense, as the troop has achieved its aim of making Eagle scouts.

If the vision is development of leadership skills, then the troop would allow all eligible scouts to hold any position which will help him develop and improve leadership skills, and even encourage the best to run,.

If the vision is a delivering a great outdoors program, then the troop would encourage those that have demonstrated the enthusiasm, skills, and ability to run for SPL, regardless of their rank.

You can see where this is going - define first your vision (guided by the aims of scouting), and then determine how you will implement the methods to help you achieve the vision.

[moosetracker]

Yeah qwazse - I don't think the JASM is to strip them of doing any position if they would prefer.. It is just our troop kind-of looks at JASM as similar to Troop Guide, but with extra benefits.. So if scouts stay between Eagle & 18 they usually choose the honored position as they don't have an opportunity for it elsewise..

 

They do the same type of guiding and mentoring of a Troop Guide, only they no longer are in a patrol, but part of the adult ASM leadership and they (along with SPL & ASPL) eat with the adults.. They are also allowed to get into the older adult discussions.. When lining up for flags all patrols group together with SPL & ASPL in front.. The JASM will line up with the SM & ASM group..

 

That sort of thing. They are essentially allowed to guide and be a part of the youth oriented groups similar to a Troop Guide position, but interact and be treated as part of the adult group also.. Best of both worlds type of position.

 

If for some reason a boy is 16 & Eagle and let the SM know he prefered staying in a different position in the troop, or remain in a patrol with their friends or whatever that would be acceptable too.. It is just considered a benifit, if the boy does not want to utilize it, no one will force it down their throat.

[acco40]

1) How did JASM get into the discussion of Eagle Scout = SPL?

2) The second best SPL that served in our troop during my time as Scoutmaster was a Tenderfoot.

3) I had a few Eagle Scouts that we "only" historians, librarians, ASPL, etc. Never held the position of PL or SPL.

4) The very best, by far, SPL that I had was an Eagle Scout that held the leadership positions of Den Chief, Patrol Leader, Troop Guide, NLYT Troop Guide, NYLT SPL, Jambo ASPL, etc. He was elected SPL at 12 when he was a 1st Class Scout. Now, as a 20 year old who just finished his junior year in college, I'm tryin to wean him away from Scouts (he will be a Summer Camp Director this summer) and into a "real" career in his field.

 

I think the real question should be should a Scout be able to become an Eagle without serving, or at least attempting, to hold the office of SPL?