adult alcohol use

[Twocubdad]

Years ago, at one of my early training sessions, it was explained that while smoking is permitted just not in front of the boys, there is a total ban on alcohol consumption because alcohol use is a youth protection issue.

 

Because alcohol tends to lower folks inhibitions, alcohol use is usually a precursor to abuse or at least an element of abuse. Not necessarily sexual abuse, but -- as it was explained to me -- say a kid does something boneheaded, like throwing Coleman fuel into a fire :-) . His dad, who may be fairly restrained otherwise, may go off on his own kid with his inhibitions lowered by a couple snorts under his belt.

 

Personally, I'd love to finish a long day with a nice single malt in front of the fire. But just because the boys are asleep, I don't feel like I'm "off duty." I could be summoned to deal with an emergency or drive someone to the ER any time. While a few sips isn't likely to make any difference, I just don't think it's worth all the possible complications. If you can't go 36 hours on a campout without hitting the sauce, you really need to have a chat with the fellow in the mirror.

 

Consequently, based on my understanding of the principle behind the rule, I would have a problem with these leaders grabbing a few while on an errand to town. Especially considering the earlier conversation about not drinking on the job. Come on, you really want to shave the rules that close? I get enough of that sort of crap from the 13 year olds, I don't need it from the adults. If having a drink is that important to you, stay home and drink all you like.

 

I will note that on a long-term camping situation which Beav describes, I wouldn't have a problem with the fellows going to town for a nice meal and a drink. But if you're off for the night, you're off for the night. See you tomorrow morning.

 

 

[Scoutfish]

So while it's completely and believably possible that they didn't drink at the great little bar they found...I am wondering how did they find it.

 

I mean, did they just actually stumnble upon it or is it a case of " Since we are here, lets look around a bit."

 

I mean seriously, you can't even go for supplies without looking for a bar?

 

Have these 2 people have been warned before, or what that a general warning to more adults?

 

I'd say it like this: Starting right now, the slate is clean. But there are no more warnings, no more chances, no more alcohol. PERIOD! MAKE IT TO OR FROM MEETRINGS OR TROOP ACTIVITIES.

 

 

Then stick to it

 

 

Again, if a grown adult cannot refrain from taking a drink during camping events, or even on the days that have them going to or from meetings...if they cannoty wait til after the meeting on meeting night...then too bad for them.

 

 

I might drink 3 or 4 beers when I drink, which right now averages about 6 times during the course of ten years. But back in the day before being married and responcible to other people than myself, I could empty my share of beer.

 

But even then, I could wait til I got home or wasn't heading somewhere to have a drink.

 

If a parent knows it is a meeting night, and they cannot manage to wait tile afterward to have a drink...they may be a big swafety liability to the unit in the long run.

 

 

[evmori]

Going out to a bar while at summer camp or on any other Scouting trip is just being stupid! Even having a beer or other alcoholic drink during dinner off site is also stupid! Anything can happen on the way back to camp and it would make great front page news!

[Twocubdad]

"But back in the day before being married and responcible ...."

 

And you want us to believe you're a responcible adult now?

 

 

That's rich. Sorry 'fish, couldn't resist.

 

 

 

And Ed, I don't disagree with you. I can't see any of my leaders taking off for a night during a week of summer camp. But maybe in a narrow circumstance where several guys had taken a summer to staff camp for six weeks, I can see going out a time or two. And I'm not advocating getting totally ripped and knee-crawlin' you're way back to the tent, either.

[Scoutfish]

Somewhat responcible?

[Basementdweller]

evmori.....My Fricken CC and his girl friend Shared a tent and had the audacity to throw their empty wine bottles in the trash sunday morning last year. The COR asked for his resignation the following monday. It was the culture of the Organization, the previous CM and committee would drink and play cards on the camp outs. CM is gone two years now, CC one year, it is getting better.

 

 

 

 

[desertrat77]

Recommend zero beer on scouting weekends, henceforth.

 

Also recommend the adult leaders convene now and again, in the boonies, hold a non-BSA event, and partake in cold beer, cheap cigars, big steaks, large caliber handguns, and giant bonfires. No laws broken. Great camaraderie.

 

Even for those with a powerful thirst, they should be able to get thru 1 weekend without beer at a BSA event. The suggestion above is a good outlet.

[Lisabob]

Imagine the recruiting conversations with Johnny Webelos-Scout's parents.

 

Parent: Do you allow drinking on campouts?

 

SM: Well now, I don't drink on campouts, but I can't vouch for any of the other adults who come along with us, and who may be responsible for your child's well being. But they'll leave the campsite to do their drinking so don't you worry about Johnny seeing them with beer bottles in hand.

 

 

Seriously - how can this be spun to be anything other than a problem? Why do parents entrust their kids to scout leaders one weekend a month? Will parents continue to do so, if they think your adult "leaders" are likely to nip off to the bar at any time? I know I would not. And my kid would NOT ride in one of those parents' cars again.

 

People can be impaired and dangerous drivers even when they "seem" fine. And your "fine" may not be someone else's "fine." We tell teen drivers this all the time, yet then we turn the other way when some adults do it on a scout outing. Teens also don't need more subtle - or not so subtle - messages that "drinking is cool" or "real men drink."

 

These guys have shown poor self control and poor judgment, and I'm not sure I'd trust them with my kid.

 

 

 

[IM_Kathy]

I would have a big issue with any adult drinking during a scout event - even if it was just while they were in town getting supplies. Big safety issue in my book. And considering that for weekend campouts I don't take my sleep meds for that very reason I would think someone could go without a drink. Now during summer camp where I'm gone for a week and can't go that long with just a couple of hours (if lucky) of sleep a night I make sure that we have enough adults along including having a tentmate for me (so another female) and even then if there is a storm expected at night I will not take it so I can be there mentally to do what needs done.

[OwntheNight]

Well, that explains why my dad and some of the other ASM's in my troop wanted to set up their campsite so far away! I always thought they were teaching us the 300' rule!

 

In all seriousness though...Instead of a SM minute, It needs to be a CC minute explaining to these guys that we expect the boys in the troop to be professional in their actions while they are travelling to and from events, because as representatives of the BSA, they are held to a higher standard, regardless of who the boy is. The same goes for us leaders, we are held to a higher standard and example to the boys we serve. And with the whirring of helicopter blades all around us, those standards can be set for what seems out of reach. We need to exceed those expectations of how the Scout Law applies to us, because the boys and their parents will see right through it all, if we don't.

[rdclements]

The guys described in the OP might not have realized that their actions were inappropriate. This case might be best handled with a "let's clear this up" chat.

 

I've seen responses to alcohol possession at extremes in the past. Some have felt it acceptable to drink away from the youth and others freaked out because the dinner recipe that the adults were making called for a bit of cooking wine.

 

If you are an adult participant on a youth outing, you are "on duty" until everyone is home or returned to parental custody.

[Old_OX_Eagle83]

Beavah, I can only tell you how I see things. BSA and CO policy are controlling, but the committee, and/or SM, could choose a tougher standard, but not a lesser one. You do bring up a good point. How would I know?

 

Heres the grey area, and also what makes this work in reality. If the adult smells of alcohol, demonstrates impaired motor skills, or his behavior is clearly impacted, no dice. In other words, if I can tell he has been drinking, he s not going anywhere near scouts. The second part is a simple one, any leader talking about drinking around scouts will be told to stop or leave.

 

What Im talking about is a unit activity, camp staff would be a bit different as there are days and nights off. Camp policy deals with these matters to be sure.

 

The key, as I see it, is to get your adults on a page with you. Make everyone aware of what the rules are, and that these rules are established to protect the scouts. Id end the discussion with There are no warnings, or second chances when it comes to violating any rule that is designed to protect the scouts.

 

[Wëlënakwsu]

My reaction... besides the alcohol use... sounds like you have too many adults involved with a camping trip.

[Tampa Turtle]

I think gentlemen should refrain from partaking when on duty and "on duty" would mean the entire trip. I am not saying that dealing with the lads has not made me want a good stiff drink. On the occasions I have been around fellows who have enjoyed a nip on a campout there usually was a few moments when they said something about a boy or a boy's family a bit too loud, or swore a bit more.

[drhink]

I used to think if some of the adults drank alcohol but I didn't know about it or it was kept out of sight, then it wasn't a big deal.

 

As eisely said, "I want to be sure that adults are fully capable of responding to any emergency".

 

A funny thing about emergencies: they don't always give you much advanced warning. Once you've had to do an evacuation at 2:30 AM due to sudden severe weather that's ripping trees apart in your campsite, you realize you need every adult on deck and 100% functional. I will not take a chance on someone that cannot put the potential needs of the group above his/her own need for alcohol for just one night.