Consequences

[Twocubdad]

What do you believe is an appropriate consequence for an older 15yo) Star scout who intentionally throws Coleman fuel on a roaring fire?

[moosetracker]

Probably something to do with fire saftey.

 

Our old SM at the time of the incident would have probably had the scout up tending the fire for most of the night..

 

But, after the initial reaction of the incident, and since you are home posting I would imagine there is time between crime and punishment, I guess my suggestion would be that he gave a very, very all encompassing training session to either the younger scouts, his patrol, or the entire troop on fire saftey (depends on the makeup of your troop, and who you think could benefit from the training).. One which he would have to do research on, and which you might ask that he run by you his plans so that you know that it was not something he whipped together in 5 minutes.

[Basementdweller]

I think a camp out for the troop with no fuelled devices and a presentation to the troop on Safe use and storage of fuelled devices would be appropriate from the offending scout would be good.

 

using these devices is a privilege, not a right. It takes what would take hours over a campfire and compresses it to less than an hour. Cooking and heating water to clean.

[evmori]

I think a camp out for the troop with no fuelled devices and a presentation to the troop on Safe use and storage of fuelled devices would be appropriate from the offending scout would be good.

 

Why should the whole unit have to pay for the poor judgement of one Scout?

 

I think the offender should lose all fire making and campfire attendance privileges as well as have to teach the young Scouts the rules and regs of fire safety.

[John-in-KC]

What does your SPL think? I ask that in all seriousness...

 

 

I think making him an instructor, requiring him to earn Fire Safety MB, and then teach the skills of Fire Safety to each patrol in turn over the next year might get the point across...

[Mike F]

Once is bad judgment and a learning experience for offending scout and all in attendance.

A repeat offence is a trip home any time, any place, any distance.

 

[Eagledad]

>>I think making him an instructor, requiring him to earn Fire Safety MB, and then teach the skills of Fire Safety to each patrol in turn over the next year might get the point across...

[John-in-KC]

but I think the, visit to a burn center had the most impact.

 

I like that Barry!

[Gary_Miller]

My 19yr scout sons advice.

 

It obviously the scout likes fires so why not make it his job to be the Troop Fireman. Don't make it sound like a punishment but make it something he can do because of his interest in fires.

 

Duties would be.

 

Over sees:

 

All Building and lighting all troop fire.

 

Fire safety preparation, making sure that fire buckets are place at each tent, and fire circles are built properly, ect..

 

Storage and usage of fuels.

 

 

[Twocubdad]

Seems like we have to deal with this sort of thing about every two years. We're due.

 

The Scout in question is a notorious firebug. Always has to build a fire, even when there's no purpose and is always playing in it -- nothing as serious as this, but constantly poking and playing with burning sticks.

 

I'm not sure I want to make a person responsible for teaching a topic where he has so clearly demonstrated a lack of responsibility.

 

In the past we've none the Fire Safety MB thing, but the troop program theme for this month is fire safety, so earning the MB wouldn't require a whole lot of effort. We've previously require a 1000-word essay on fire safety and the effects of burns, including a interview with a professional who works with burn patients. We have discussed requiring a visit to a burn unit but felt it was a bit gawkish. The interview was a compromise.

 

Before, we have also included some sort of suspension. In this situation a suspension would exclude the Scout from a Philmont trip in early June. I don't think anyone is advocating that. As is, the Scout was sent home early from the campout and not allowed to participate in any activities until he left.

 

I'm leaning toward the essay and interview route again, with the added incentive that it must be completed and a presentation made to the full troop before he goes to Philmont. The presentation would be EXCRUCIATING for this particular fellow. And probably lifetime probation against similar behavior in the future.

 

I sometimes wonder if any of this has any real impact on kids or if they just blow it off with a "whatever" and are greatful there weren't any real consequences.

[Lisabob]

Twocub, I think you have a good solution outlined in your last post. Just one question - if you say "you have to do this prior to Philmont" and the boy doesn't, are you prepared to follow through on consequences of that?

 

As for the impact of the interview with the person who works in the burn unit - I bet it has more impact than the boy may show on the surface. Ask the interviewee or your fire safety folks to provide some photos of people who got burned playing with fuel. Less "gawkish" than staring at the actual people in the burn unit (which, I agree, is kind of iffy), but still gets the graphic point across.

 

 

 

 

[neil_b]

We use propane stoves and charcoal without lighter fluid for most cooking. We don't use lighter fluid or kerosene.

 

A couple adults in our troop bought the MSR WhisperLite backpacking stoves. However, WhisperLite's are a little hard to use and you do have to deal with pouring the white gas, so I would recommend to a scout or somebody who doesn't go backpacking a lot to get the isobutane canister type stove instead.

 

Even rubbing alcohol can be a temptation for pyros, so I've concluded it's better to avoid having a big bottle of it in your first aid kit since there are other alternatives.

 

So, I guess what I'm saying is you are just lucky this kid did not kill himself. And if this is happening once every couple years maybe you should be looking at the big picture of avoiding it happening in the future. The boys can't play with the coleman fuel if they don't have any.

[Eagledad]

You don't get to see patients, but the doctors, nurses and the equipment do have an impact. However, I also agree that emergency responders are also a good sourse.

 

The problem with things like fire is that it is naturally attractive to the male gender, so saying it's dangerous doesn't have much impact. Punishment is Ok in teaching respect of the scout law, but it doesn't have much impact on the adults fears of fire misshapes. At least the responsible adults anyway. So learning it from someone who can articulate the impact of careless handling of fire and fuels sometimes gives the scout respect of the consequences.

 

I was told a few years ago that two scouts have died in the history Boundary Water treks and of one them was playing with Coleman fuel. The problem is that it could take a couple of days to get to an emergency room from a the wilderness.

 

Barry

[Basementdweller]

The entire patrol.....because I am going to be some of them stood around and watched him do it.

[Twocubdad]

It's always something different.

 

We went from white gas to propane about four years ago, mainly because the old stoves were getting leaky and difficult use and because of the danger of white gas. The first boy who got into trouble was just after the conversion and he figured out to jam the small propane canisters open with small sticks and was trying to light them on fire. He's no longer with us -- I mean he got the boot from the troop, not that he's dead .... yet. Possibly a future Darwin Award Winner. (He wasn't expelled for this alone, but after returning from a suspension it became clear he would continually violate any and all rules just to see how much he could get away with.)

 

The last guy to get in trouble would hose-down his hand with body spray and light it on fire. This was a skill he felt important enough that he chose to teach it to a group of Webelos.

 

This weekend we were backpacking and several of the patrols were using the Coleman Expedition stoves the troop has which use white gas fuel. (These aren't the old ones we got rid of, but backpacking stoves which are in good condition.) The stoves were fully fueled before we left, but for some reason this patrol grabbed a MSR bottle with extra fuel. I sppose the temptation of that much fuel around was just too much to pass up. The campsites were were in had established fire rings and most of the patrols passed on stoves and were simply cooking over the campfires. The two older patrol, many of whom are on the Philmont crew, are accustomed to using the backpackign stoves. I suppose that's part of my frustration -- this numbnuts dang-well knows better!

 

And yes, you can bet your sweet bippie if we set the report and presentation as a condition prior to the Philmont, if the condition isn't met, he WIll stay home. We've done it before.