God?

[skeptic]

Can't we all just Grok each other?

[packsaddle]

All we have to do is watch monkeys. That was such a great book!

[neil_b]

"Off point perhaps, but note that Allah is the SAME deity as the Judeo Yahweh and the Christian Jehovah. Different names for the same God."

 

I once heard it said that Allah and the Christian God are the same "what" but a different "who".

 

If you ask people from those two religions, "What is God?" you might get similar answers. But if you ask a Christian "Who is God?" you will get a very different answer from a Muslim.

 

If I say "there is only one god and he is Moe" and you say "there is only one god and he is Larry" and a third guy says "there is only one god and he is Curly", all of us agree that there is one god, but do we all worship the same god? Obviously not.

[packsaddle]

http://www.audiomicro.com/free-three-stooges-sound-clips-nyuk-nyuk-nyuk-download-512626

 

[qwazse]

Anybody ever read an Arabic Bible? The word for God is "Allah", same as in the Koran. As far as the Semitic religions go, it is not a matter of "what" or "who" but "what He did." Most agree He called the universe into being ... beyond that, things start to diverge.

 

So, yes, inasmuch as we reference the font of all creation, we worship the same God. If I believe niel_b is blonde and had a cup of coffee after his/her last post and you believe he/she had a glass of milk. If we both reply to niel_b's post we still are replying to neil_b.

 

And, if a pre-teen is still going to church with his folks even though he's on the verge of saying the universe merely has its origins in chaos, I am constrained to believe God (his/mine/yours whatever) is still gaining the recognition He deserves.

 

Actions speak louder than words. (Well, at least in my religion they do.)

[Trevorum]

[rolls eyes at packsaddle]

[Old_OX_Eagle83]

Please keep in mind this is a BSA discussion. BSA only required a belief in God, not a specific one. There are many belief systems, BSA is not trying to say one is correct, that is the place of the parent and/or religious leader of the youth in question ... never our role.

[Old_OX_Eagle83]

BadenP, it's good to see a minister weigh in here. Your wisdom is what's needed. Lets help this scout, and others like him. Turning away from his need is the wrong thing to do, regardless of your own belief system.

 

[jrush]

Packsaddle, your own opinion about what is or is not a myth is 100% irrelevant.

 

The BSA says "absolutely nonsectarian".

 

Why some of you people have such a hard time understanding the BSA's policy is beyond me. If you want the BSA to say every boy must be a "member in good standing" of a Christian, Jewish or Islamic group, start politicking national to make that the policy.

 

Otherwise, "absolutely nonsectarian" means exactly what it sounds like it means, and the boy doesn't have to believe in the Christian God.

[Scoutfish]

And as somebody else mentioned earlier in the thread,.....Maybe this kid is in a state of temporary denial or disbelief because of us.

 

Times like this are when we need to step back and make sure that we do not look at this boy through our eyes, but try to understand him through his own eyes and from his viewpoint.

 

Matter of fact, our own veiwpoint doesn't really matter does it since we are not the ones who are being "judged" ...for lack of a better word.

 

This kid may be in the position of having spent alot of time and faith in believing Micky Mouse was real, only to have that yanked away, and probably even laughed at by the people who put those beliefs in his head to begin with.

 

Same thing for the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, Tooth Fairy, The Great Pumpkin, The boogy Man, etc.. and the list goes on depending on who you are and where you live.

 

Then one day, the very people who pushed all that "belief " on you , and spent all that time hyping it up , yank the rug away and say that you are silly for believing it.

 

Then comes God or whatever god you believe in. Unlike the Easter bunny who brought you eggs or candy, Unlike Santa who brought you toys and those dreaded underwear, unlike the toothfairy who took your tooth and left you a quarter, dollar or 5 dollars ( can you believe that is what my wife gives my son? )

 

Unlike the ones who left you physical evidence, ...your parents want you to believe in God because :"Trust us, he's real!" even without physical evidence as far as a young man or boy is concerned. And after everything else they so "trust us" pushed on ended up being a load of BS.

 

And then we have the gall to question what or why he is thinking the way he does..after we are the ones who dropped bomb after bomb on him? We question his beliefs, his values and wether he has good judgement or morals?

 

Really?

 

Maybe it's the youth who should be judging us?

[packsaddle]

jrush, the point is that someone out there is always going to point at someone else's belief and think it's a myth. In that sense we're all united in that we all 'believe in' our own myths. I picked on Satan because I thought I could get away with it and didn't think anyone would defend him...boy was I wrong??!!

 

But I'm glad I picked that one because it demonstrated that if I even 'examined' the idea that Satan does/doesn't exist, someone was going to get bent out of shape. And DID.

The better option is NOT to examine anyone at all especially if they claim NOT to believe something. How in the heck do you examine the absence of something?...you can't really. What was that line that Jesus said, about casting the first stone or something along those lines?

 

Edit: Scoutfish, about youth judging us, rest assured...they do.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[Beavah]

Wait a minute. Wait just a minute!

 

You're saying Santa Claus doesn't exist??!

 

Beavah

 

[qwazse]

Pack, I think the "first stone" thing was in reference to a G2SS violation (venturing age female found in the wrong tent).

 

The log-in-the eye reference I made earlier is the closest fit to this context.

 

There is a line of Christian thought that frowns on casual references to Satan as well (no "Ache Eee Double Hockey" sticks loosely either).

 

When I was in Italy, vain references to Madonna (the virgin, not the pop star) were common -- and equally frowned upon. One's belief in virgin birth was irrelevant.

 

My point is, unless you divulge your doubts to a scout (and I've only known 'em to even care to listen once they are 15 or older), judging his theology is never a level playing field. On the other hand, the chances a kid can call you on cussing (even from 300' away) as often as you may call him on it are high. If you've called him on it, he will return the favor given the chance. When he does (and there's very few of us where it will be "if") you can apologise and promise to do better next time.

 

For the young ones, if you stick to working on reverence the action (not the state of mind) you'll both be better for it.

[JMHawkins]

Unlike Santa who brought you toys and...

 

But Scoutfish, Santa Clause is real. In a sense. The spirit of kindness and joy, of generosity. The pleasure of doing something to make another person happy, the optimism of festive decorations in the middle of bleak winter, and the respect for traditions and remembrance of days and friends gone by. That silver bell still rings for me, I still hear it. Oh sure, some people get carried away, turn it into a self-paradoy, but we can't discard everything that someone takes a little too far. So maybe there's not actually a fat guy in a red suit who lives at the North Pole with a bunch of elves, but there is a spirit at work that can make each of us into a part of Santa, into an agent of the spirit.

 

So maybe ask the Scout if he believes in Santa Clause, and if he says no, ask him if he believes in the spirit of Christmas...

 

Oh, but we were talking about God, weren't we? Sorry for the tangent.

[qwazse]

The Orthodox will tell you he is very much real. The secular portrayal is a contrivance of Madison Avenue, but his passion for the impovrished was notworthy and inspiring. Chances are he'd enjoy a good slice of cured venison and port over sugar cookies and milk.

 

I actually told my kids that every year. Never did get any deer jerky though.