Friends of Scouting and out of touch District...

[BS-87]

Basement, I know you're a great volunteer because I've seen many Cubmasters and Scoutmasters (far more Scoutmasters actually) just like you. I truly understand your opinions, as they were the opinions of my Unit's leaders when I was a boy.

 

However, having had the opportunity to serve at the District level, we find there are definitely mal-contents out there. There has to be some reason your District and Council do what they do. I just want you to know they're out there for the good of boys, just like you are, it's just that you have differing opinions on how to do it than them. Talk to them and try to see their side of the story.

 

My guess is that your District isn't a bad district, they're probably just avoiding you because someone in the past made you sour towards the whole idea of the district and council. And now that they're in these positions, they were told you hate them for no good reason, and so are reluctant to extend the olive branch or risk you spoiling other units' opinions of them. There has to be a rational explanation to the way events are playing out.

 

Maybe your Cub Events lack volunteer leadership to run (and even if you offered to help they wouldn't want it, getting back to the sour thing) Maybe it's been impossible for them to budget an event to be self-sustaining, and so the SE put a moratorium on them. For whatever reason, there is a problem in your council and district. I can guarantee the problem is not avarice, or hubris, or sloth; it's probably just a lot of lack of information.

 

Here's to hoping you can work this out with a warm smile and helping hand

[Basementdweller]

I had the district pinewood in the bag ready to go, zero effort on their part, and they squashed it. they went out of their way and killed the event, They spent nearly a week calling every CM in the District to make sure they knew it wasn't a sanctioned event and their Pack shouldn't participate.

 

I will take care of the boys and girls I serve and make sure their scouting experience the best it can be.

 

I jumped thru their hoops to make the cub events happen, Camp School, woodbadge. I had already recruited volunteers, they were from other districts, But they still were quality volunteers. They killed one event after another.

 

I simply gave up. It is much easier to attend another district or councils event than struggle trying to put one on locally.

 

We have three local Packs that have come together to put on local events for our cubs. Webelos advancement weekend, and Earth day events. Ya, the district is talking bad about us.

 

But who cares, let them flap their jaws.

[SctDad]

Eagle92

 

In my opinion, what does the united way's policy of making volunteers pay have anything to do with our volunteers. Or is it the fact that the United way used to give so much money to the council.

 

I don't care how the other organizations do things.

 

I guess that is why I sent an e-mail last week telling the Prog. Dir that I would not be organizing family camp this year.

 

I HATE the fact that the uppers are so concerned about making money that they forget about the program.

 

I want the BSA's business model so I can make millions. It is one of the only places that I know that has people pay them to work. So not only am I having to use my time off from work, vacation time or what ever, but also having to give more money to do the job that I supposedly "volunteered" for.

 

Sorry, I think that there are too many people trying to make a buck in the council.

[Doc Meyer]

Basement,

 

Instead of living in a bubble and dismissing my "arrogant" attitude as "rubbish," educate yourself how a District Key 3 is supposed to recruit key distric -- not unit-level -- volunteers. If all of your district's operating committee is filled, you wouldn't see your executive much at all -- the way it ought to be. Unfortunately, this is often not case.

 

I don't doubt your passion for Scouting, but your anger is misplaced, and I suspect is a partial cause for friction in your district and council. No matter how great an idea is, a district or council would never allow a malcontent to conduct an event or represent the organization.

[SeattlePioneer]

>

 

 

Actually, I think there ought to be more packs working together to share quality activities and program.

 

I'd especially like to see strong packs pairing up to help weak packs. Too often weak units are just left to themselves to wither on the vine.

[BS-87]

Doc Meyer -

 

That's going a little too far. This isn't a forum for infighting.

 

This whole thread should be in Council Relations anyway...

[Abel Magwitch]

Doc Meyer, are you a pro or past pro?

 

My district committee was hand picked by the DE. No nominations needed. In fact, my district only has a key 2. The district chair knows nothing about scouting, just a person who has good business contacts. The district has not had a district commissioner for over a year. I think there is only a single unit commissioner.

 

The DE is controlling everything. The traditional unit count in the district is very low. The special program units (scoutreach, in school scouting, learning for life) is all the DE is concerned about.

 

Doc, you may come from a very good council that has not experienced any of the bad things that do happen in other councils. If that is the case, i envy you. But I truly understand basementdweller's situation. He is obvioulsy a part of a council like mine.

[moosetracker]

Can't we all just be friends, and get along?

 

Seriously I see Doc's viewpoint. I see Basement's..

 

Basement has a right to be angry and upset with his district.. BUT.. His negative attitude will make him no friends, and it is truely a reason he can work hard to try to get his name onto the approved list to host District events, but he will never get on the list..

 

Still it is wrong for those in his district to string him along and tell him he needs to go to one training to get to host District events.. Then when accomplish tell him he needs to go to woodbadge to get on that approved list.. They are dangling carrots at him, knowing all the while they will not put him on the list for any reason..

 

Which .. surprise, surprise.. makes Basement more angry and negative...

[Basementdweller]

what fun.

 

I aspire to be nothing more than what I am, Den Leader, CM and Adviser and ASM. Perfectly happy here.

 

honestly I am beyond the whole volunteering for the district. I am a malcontent, so be it. I have never called the DE and complained, never called the District commissioners and complained, the Cub activity chair, ya she knows me and we have an understanding. The DE doesn't cringe when he hears me coming and to be honest I don't think he even knows me by name.

 

 

I will continue to serve my scouts and it keeps me perfectly busy. Nothing more fun than the webelos teaching the wolves trees, leaves and animal signs on a hike. I have three earth day projects this weekend with 100 people scheduled for all three.....it is going to be a great weekend.

 

 

 

 

[desertrat77]

I see Basement's side...I've lived it.

 

As for the theory that his alleged "attitude" is keeping the district folks away, I disagree with that on a number of levels.

 

First is the assumption that he has a bad attitude in first place. I disagree--I think he's a realist. I think Basement's stance is spot on, and he's got a legit beef.

 

Second is the assumption that any kind of disagreement is just awful and results in negative vibes. Maybe. In this case? Nope. Basement seems to be viewing things as they actually are but he's not letting it keep him from providing a good program for the scouts.

 

Third is the assumption that we all need to hold hands ala scout vespers and just get along. A worthy goal to strive for, but it takes all parties concerned to make that a real working partnership. If the DE isn't willing to meet Basement in the middle, I recommend letting the matter be. A fake peace just for the sake of peace isn't worth the trouble.

 

Fourth is the assumption that Basement really needs to comprehend and respect all that his DE, or any DE, is going thru. I think that is backwards. Unit level leaders are the pinnacle of scout leadership in my book. Every other adult works for them.

 

Fifth is the assumption that Basement is the one that needs to offer the peace pipe. Disagree 100 percent.

 

Sixth is the assumption that there is a need for the DE and Basement to be pals. It would be nice, but I don't think it's necessary. Relations may be strained, but Basement is keeping it from the scouts. Real scouting happens quite often with and without district help.

 

 

[Basementdweller]

I don't hate the DE. I don't hate anyone. I hate the situation in the district and the good old boy club that prevents what could have been.

 

I have spoken with him just a hand full of times and I know for a fact he doesn't even know my name.

 

My stance is I will do what ever it takes to provide the best program for my scouts. I will not let twisted loyalty to district or council stand in the way of that goal. No district family camp, cub events or camporee, no problem someone is putting one on.....we will go attend that one.

 

 

The District is irrelevant in my world.(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello Desert Rat,

 

 

 

[Eagle2000]

"I do my own recruiting including flyers and yard signs," - Basementdweller

 

Why complain about spending thousands of your own dollars on things like flyers and signs when the council produces those? If you would participate in council or district level recruiting events, you wouldn't have to pay for the materials yourself. You can't spend your own money unnecessarily and then complain that you spent it.

 

You say in one thread that you never have complained to your DE, commissioner or others. Then you say that you have talked to your DE a handful of times and yet, he doesn't even know your name. First of all, if you never complain then how can you expect anything to change? On my second day as a new DE, I spent over an hour on the phone with one leader because her pack was in such bad shape. We have talked several times now and I've been to a meeting already to try to fix the issues. I know the issues and many of the leaders now by face and name. I've only been in the job, literally, one month and I already know several leaders. Why? Because they took the time to bring up the issues they had and talk to me about them. What happened? Those issues are being resolved. Maybe instead of complaining here, you should complain to those who can actually make something happen in your council or district. I'm not trying to be rude here. I just think your anger and frustration needs to be aimed at resolving the issues instead of just pointing them out to outsiders who can't really help much.

[Twocubdad]

No.

 

At the time, Cubs typically did not apply for camperships. They were for Boy Scout camp. The couple times there was a need, the camp was expected to asorb the reduced fee into our budget.

 

I will note that may have changed since I was CD. The council promotes day camp camperships and I assume there is some mechanism for money from the campership fund being allocated to the day camp budget.

[moosetracker]

Basement - I am not quite sure if the clash is with the DE, or with the volunteer district committee, who have formed a "good ol' boys" club.. But comments similar to this

 

 

I jumped thru their hoops to make the cub events happen, Camp School, woodbadge. I had already recruited volunteers, they were from other districts, But they still were quality volunteers. They killed one event after another.

 

 

Maybe now you are content, just aspire to be nothing more than what I am, Den Leader, CM and Adviser and ASM. Perfectly happy here.

 

I would too. You'd be a fool to keep chasing that carrot they dangle in front of you but then yank away.

 

If your DE and others at the paid level don't know you and are not part of this game of cat & mouse with you, and you don't ask for your fair share of support.. Then accept for the lack of upkeep to the camps, your anger may be misplaced at them.

 

The lack of district programming is to be run at the district volunteer level.. If the district volunteers are the ones not allowing in new blood with fresh ideas and enthusiam, not providing adequate programs, and the one who is dangling that carrot on you and none of the Council paid staff even know who you are.. Then the beef not with your council..

 

How much influence does a DE have over his volunteer staff??.. Not much, if the volunteer staff is knowledgeable enough to know that he/she has no say over their operations.. The DE can come find out what they are doing, ask that things be done (hope that they will get done), make suggestions such as bringing in new blood, or looking around a filling vacant positions. The District volunteer staff can support him and try to make the DE's life easier, or not..

 

For all you know your DE may be hating his District volunteer pool as much as you do, and he is just stuck with no ability to drive them out and replace them..

 

Now if the committee is not wise to the DE lack of power in their arena, the DE can pull a power play and take over the running of the operation. But, it sounds like your District volunteer staff has been around the block a few times, and can probably make life miserable for the DE..

 

I am not stating that you came into BSA with a chip on your shoulder and that your attitude is the reason that you were not allowed to work at district level.. But rather the "good ol' boys" have been playing games with you (probably at the start, the same games they play on everyone else in order to assure that they stay top dog and you know your place..) You though kept trying where most gave up and went back to there units, and the more they played games with you the more frustrated and angry you became.. You have been a delightful play toy for men who never grew up from the playground bully mentallity..

 

I find it hard to believe that you can show such anger and frustration on this board, and not have shown the same attitude to the people who are causing you this anger and frustration..