Friends of Scouting and out of touch District...

[JMHawkins]

I don't think the messaging is the problem. It's the structure.

 

BSA faces a set of problems common to non-profit, volunteer-heavy, service organizations, it's not exactly unique to us, but perhaps the "franchised unit" structure adds a level of complexity. But unique or not, we shouldn't ignore the concerns.

 

The unit leaders ask families to volunteer their time. We also ask them to pay several mandatory fees (unit dues, camp fees, adult registration, training fees, etc.). We ask them to buy official uniforms from BSA at prices that don't certainly qualify as "thrifty". We also ask them to do fundraising (popcorn, unit-specific fundraisiers). And we ask them to donate to FoS. It's the multiple asks that are the problem. We're constantly hitting the families up for something. When you couple that with the lack of transparency about where the money goes, it breeds distrust. When you have FoS presentations with confusing information and double-counting of expenses like several examples cited in this thread, it breeds more distrust.

 

We need to understand that people are - especially these days - a little cyncial about charitable donations. There have been enough bad examples that it's justified, if unfortunate, for people to feel that way. I think we need to make a special effort to demonstrate BSA takes the first point of the Scout Law seriously. We should be clear about what each and every fee, donation or fundraiser really pays for, not just mush it all into one bucket without opening the books. Most families are willing to pay their own way, and to help keep other deserving families in the program. They just don't want to be taken advantage of.

 

The way we go about it makes people feel taken advantage of. We should fix that. It's the best way I can think of to improve FoS participation, both by unit volunteers and by families.

[Oak Tree]

SeattlePioneer,

 

Yes, you are right, our pack did benefit from the recruiting efforts of the DEs - they made flyers to take to the schools, yard signs for recruiting night, organized one recruiting night for the whole district, etc.

 

I think it's more about the way it is presented. If the presented shows a video that says "here's all the ways your pack benefits", but in fact our pack doesn't actually benefit from those things, then the message rings pretty hollow. Very few of our Cub Scouts attend day camp - it just seems that the unit activities are better run, less chaotic.

 

I agree that there have to be professionals in place at the council level to create the structure for the volunteers to operate in.

 

We actually do offer to do our own FOS presentations. Usually the district takes us up on it, although sometimes reluctantly, and sometimes they really pressure us to use the district presenter. I suspect that they think if we use our own presenter, we won't try quite so hard to get the money (and they may be right). Sometimes we use our own presenter, but the district sends along their guy to help out with a word or two and to help collect the money, and that works fine.

 

I guess my biggest problem with FOS is the misrepresentation. I don't really mind non-profits asking for donations. I like AvidSM's point - the money goes to pay for salaries and expenses at the council level. I'd like more transparency on where the money goes, and more efficiency in how it's spent, but mostly it's the pitch that I don't really like - and that does vary from year to year. Now that we control the message, I'm generally happier with it.

 

So where does the money go? We have a DE for our district. We get about 1/3 of an office worker, and and 1/13 of an SE and a Controller and a Financial Specialist, etc. There are roughly two people on staff per district. I'm roughly estimating that the cost per employee of salary, benefits, office space, travel, etc comes to around $100,000. There are about 2,000 Scouts in our district. So that comes to around $100 per youth member. That's in the right ballpark.

 

Now, what do these people do with their time? This, I'll admit, I don't have a really good feel for. Based on all the posts in this forum, it starts to feel like they must spend a lot of their time on the phone with dysfunctional units.

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello Oak Tree,

 

 

I liked Avid's "pitch" too. As an FOS pitchman, I am given a dozen or more ways I can sell the FOS program, and I choose one I can relate to and present in a convincing manner. If AVID's line were included as an option, I'd probably choose it, at least to give it a try and see how it works.

 

Still, I don't think I'm any great shakes as an FOS presenter. Our DE does an excellent job. Our former council Chief Executive gave his pitch to a FOS training session, and he was AWESOME!

 

In the Cub Scouts, we do our best. Sometimes that's not as good as you'd wish it to be.

 

 

Personally, I see a lot of hard working staffers at the council office and little waste I'd call reasonably avoidable. I tend to be a sceptic too, but what I've seen at our council has convinced me the money is spent pretty wisely and intelligently. Perhaps that's not true in all councils.

 

 

And some times people or units have bad experiences with their district or council. Very many of those and you are going to lose your support for anything district or council based.

 

I recall a few years ago a Cub Pack parent made a generous contribution to FOS that earned the family a plaque. It was several months before the DE ordered all the plaques at once, and an additional month or two before I got the plaque to the unit leaders to be awarded.

 

Still later I got complaint from the contributor asking where his promised plaque was. He asked a couple of times. I had to go back to the unit leaders and track down the plaque, and it turns out that the family hadn't attended the Pack Meeting where it would have been awarded, causing further delay.

 

A number of things combined to give a bad experience to someone who deserved the best.

 

In the end we got the plaque awarded. Not long after the person became the Cubmaster in the pack, and has been doing an excellent job for three years or so, becoming more involved attending Roundtables and such.

 

He could as easily have been turned off by the poor performance displayed by the district and I. Instead he was gracious enough to shrug that off once the repeated difficulties were explained an I apologized.

 

It was a big pain in the neck for me that I didn't need wither.

 

 

 

 

[BS-87]

To 83Eagle, Oak Tree, etc...

 

In my district, the DE does many presentations, but in most of them the Unit Leader and/or Committee Chair will do the presentation. This is because those leaders understand more than anyone else the support they receive from the district and council, as it's relevant to them. A DE may know what they offer in general, but it takes someone committed to that Unit to really tell them what makes this support important, and which support/programs they couldn't function without.

 

It's unfortunate your council has been a mess for 30 years, there's a unit in our District that holds a 30 year old grudge, and so will not even come to Roundtable. The fact is that professional staff rotates to make making amends all the easier. At the next opportunity, pitch your vision to that professional staff and sell yourself as an agent of change. If you don't volunteer to affect positive change, who is going to?

[BS-87]

Also, on a mod note.

 

Can this be moved to Council Relations?

[desertrat77]

Our district raises FOS dollars through soliciting local businesses and such.

 

No sales pitches to units. Times are tough every where, but this county has been hit really hard.

 

Good news though--this approach works great--FOS goal met!

 

I heard the council FOS pitch at the roundtable. Moreso than my previous councils, this council is honest and respectful.

 

Other places, council/district folks make pitches that have the underlying attitude of "you unit level folks owe us."

 

Folks don't reward poor or invisible service, be it a service department at a car dealership, or a restaurant, or a scout council.

 

And if you think your council is getting a bad rap, it's up the the council to solve that image problem, not the volunteers at unit level.

 

 

[Eagle92]

FOS is a necessary evil b/c if we actually charged what it costs for scouting, few could afford it.

 

I know I have done my fair share of FOS presentations, both as a DE and as a volunteer, pre and post DE, and there are a variety of ways to do the presentation.

 

But the key is that the parents and leaders have to see how the council is providing support. If they don't see it, it does ring hollow.

[desertrat77]

Eagle92, I agree 100 percent.

 

Salesmanship is the key--folks can pick up on a bad sales pitch in an instant. And will say "no thanks" more often than not because of it.

 

Honesty and respect are paramount. The council folks that forget that have a tough road.

[JMHawkins]

FOS is a necessary evil b/c if we actually charged what it costs for scouting, few could afford it.

 

So why are we making the FOS presentations to the families then? If they can't afford it, where do we expect the money to come from?

 

 

[moosetracker]

JMHawkins -

 

FOS is a necessary evil b/c if we actually charged what it costs for scouting, few could afford it... So why are we making the FOS presentations to the families then? If they can't afford it, where do we expect the money to come from?

 

 

Answer is that we are not looking at them as the sole donator, not even as the main donator.. My DE was talking about percentage of what is to come from buisnesses & what is the expected percentage from the families.. I believe it was about 25 to 30% for families.. This may be a different percentage from council to council for example it seems desertrat has the percentage from families set at 0%...

 

But if we did expect 100% from the families then most of us couldn't afford it..

[SeattlePioneer]

>

 

 

 

Hello desertrat,

 

 

Hmmmm. As far as I know, the main target for FOS dollars in my district are fromfamilies of Scouts. We did get a major assist when Boeing made contribution on behalf of its employees based on hours of work contributed, and a number of other businesses match contributions by employees.

 

Our council organizes FOS breakfasts and such using celebrities to help attract contributors.

 

But yours is the first district I've heard of that dispenses with unit family solicitations altogether.

 

Is that true of all the districts in your council?

 

What methods do you use on a district level to attract this financial support?

[Eagle92]

JM,

 

Part of why we go to families is that some can help. I know some pros what the "big bucks" but every little bit helps. So if a family can afford $10, I'm happy. If a family is in a real tough economic situation and can't give, I have no problem with that either. I don't like pressuring folks b/c I was one of those scouts from a family that couldn't afford to give FOS, let alone Scouting without fundraisers and "sweat equity." Like I say at the end of my FOS presentations, " Don't give until it hurts, give until it feels good."

 

But there are units out there than have family members who can give the "big bucks." I know with one unit I was told NOT to do a family FOS presentation, b/c their members' parents and leaders are all at the Leadership level or higher ($500). I know in a few cases, we have had folks transfer in, who were not on the council's radar as givers b/c they have just moved in town, and it was via the family FOS presentations that we discover them.

 

I know every council is different, heck every SE is different and wants things done a little differently, so situations in one area may not apply. Also DEs and other presenters have different approaches. Some just don't have the right stuff to connect with the audience.

 

But the key is to find out where the money is going, and if you think it's in the best interest of the scouts, follow up onit. And if you do not think so, ASK. Sometimes things may not seem like they really are.

 

I'll give you an example. An old council of mine did some clear cutting, and of course that upset a lot of people. Everyone thought it was just for the money. BUT when it was explained to folks that we had a beatle infestation that was killing the trees and the forestry service came in and basically told the council what to people calmed down. And then when it further explained that we cought the infestation early enough thatwe were able to sell some of the lumber, and that the money was being reivested into the camp via a new dam (which was critically needed as the old one was damaged and barely holding on), major renovations on our waterfront, and otehr camp improvements, which was shown during summercamp, things calmed down tremendously.

[GKlose]

I'm thinking about taking over the FoS presentation for our troop this next year, because of this year's experience. The FoS-trained volunteer's message was just way too long, and I think missed the point (I should probably give that feedback to the district or council FoS chair that developed the presentation). Honestly, I think a shorter presentation to parents, with a quick one-on-one with the parents that don't show, would probably have a better yield, to be blunt. As it stands how, only about 25% of the families in the troop have donated. We're pretty low-key, we don't sell popcorn and we only have been doing two other "low impact" fundraisers a year.

 

Guy

[SctDad]

I hear a lot of people talking about being a FoS Coordinator or "Saleman" for their unit or district.

 

I pray that I am never asked to do this. Because I can tell you that the District will not make its goal.

 

I would tell them that the money goes to the Council and District. The units see no money. In fact we are pushed into selling popcorn so that we can earn money, and give even more to the council.

 

And then like someone said, leaders have to pay for membership, training and even to volunteer at events, leaders have to pay. Where does it stop.

 

Anyone know what it would take to see a copy of the council budget?

 

 

[desertrat77]

SP,

 

Our district is the only one thus far in the council to forgo family solicitation (large council too).

 

The FOS folks at district (starting last year) began reaching out to organizations such a veteran's groups, businesses, etc., with a simple campaign of letter writing and some personal appearances. Straightforward approach: Scouting is beneficial to the community, here's what scouting costs, we'd appreciate X amount donation, but any amount would be great.

 

Last year, the FOS goal was met (a sizeable one too), and district is on track for this year.

 

I was immediately struck by the honesty, and the good old fashioned common sense of actually going where the money might be. Times are tough around the country, but my district has been hit quite hard by unemployment, foreclosures--one of the hardest hit in the state.

 

I really tip my hat to scouters who came up with this plan. It works. And no one faces the challenge of asking money from families who are just barely getting by. The families aren't put in the position of having to hear the pitch and struggle with where the money might come from.(This message has been edited by desertrat77)