Friends of Scouting and out of touch District...

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello Oak Tree,

 

 

In my council, I'd guess that 90% of the effort in recruiting new Scouts goes to recruiting new CUB Scouts. Out of twelve districts, three have volunteer Membership Chairs supplementing the efforts of paid professionals in recruiting new Cub Scouts.

 

As one of the most active of those Membership Chairs, I'm still supplementing the efforts of my District Executive.

 

There are a few Cub Scout Packs that could survive at least for a few years doing their own recruiting. But most would be in a death spiral, lacking the skills and commitment to do a task that involves some skill and isn't much fun to do.

 

 

Last year our Cub Scout Day Camp Director quit a few weeks before daycamp, an there was not much done to make the day camp work. The show did go on, because pretty much every paid staff member at the council was assigned to turn out and MAKE it work.

 

In my view, we are LUCKY, LUCKY, LUCKY to be able to afford the paid staff we have. I'm all in favor of volunteers, but there just aren't enough of us and most are naturally attracted to program rather than the hard nitty gritty of things like recruiting.

 

 

Fund raising is a fact of life. But it can be done well or poorly, and sometimes it is done poorly.

 

I shake my tin cup as a solicitor for Friends of Scouting. Perhaps some of those who object to poor solicitation presentations should do the same --- you may be able to do a better job, which would be all to the good.

 

Two Cub Dad,

 

At least in our council, families applying for Cub Scout Day Camp and Boy Scout Camp can apply for camperships, which come out of the council's revenue from the camps. Of course the council gets some money from Cub Scout Day Camp too. They are pretty generous in approving grants for half the day camp fees to most of the people who apply.

 

Do I think Cub Scouts gets a fair return on Friends of Scouting dollars? Yes. Do Boy Scouts get more ----yes.

 

 

 

[jhankins]

I'll present to a unit once. But I won't go present to a unit again, or to a unit that's already been hit up once. One of our local professionals insists on hitting units again and again to see if he can eek out a few more bucks toward the goal, and in my opinion, that's the wrong people to ask. We're in a county with 12%+ unemployment rate, and 70% free lunch in the schools. It's a rough crowd to ask for more and more money.

[83Eagle]

SP, your COUNCIL does cub scout recruiting? How did you get so lucky as to have them do recruiting for packs? Or is it more of a general thing. I'm not aware of any pack in our district that does not do 100% its own recruiting.

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello 83 Eagle,

 

 

One of the primary jobs of District Executives is usually to assist units with recruiting new members.

 

Our council provides recruiting materials like flyers, posters, yardsigns, stickers, doorhangers and such at no charge to units. Put in a request and flyers and stickers will have the date, time location and other details of unit recruiting nights added to flyers and stickers.

 

In addition, the council staff takes a good deal of responsibility in contacting units --- Cub Packs primarily, to schedule recruiting nights and often the District Executive goes into schools to invite boys to attend recruiting nights. Often the DE attends and conducts the recruiting night, or assists the unit leaders as needed with the recruiting night.

 

If units are strong enough, they do their recruiting activities on their own, but most units benefit from receiving council services to some degree.

 

As one DE explained to me when recruiting me to be District Membership Chair, "You can't have a youth program without YOUTH!"

[SeattlePioneer]

For those peeved at FOS solicitations,

 

 

Almost any District Executive would be delighted to have a unit select a unit volunteer to be the FOS chair for the unit. The FOS chair can choose the kind of presentation the unit would like to have, and do it in a way the unit prefers.

 

So--- select your own FOS Chair and do it your way, or leave it up to the DE to do it his way. Which would you prefer?

[BS-87]

With no intention to be offensive to those of you who are complaining about FoS, do you not understand that Scouting exists outside your unit?

 

Your unit focus is great, that's exactly where 99% of your time and thoughts need to be. But this is a nationwide movement. Where you succeed, others are failing, and it's because they don't have the resources to make their program successful. They lack membership, money, and manpower, and you do not.

 

If the prices increase for everybody, we lose membership and create a financial barrier to joining. That is the fallacy of taxation. If you increase that rate of taxation high enough, you actually start losing revenue instead of increasing it due to evasion and fraud.

 

FoS represents the alternative to taxation, and that is charity. For those who are able, make what you love accessible to as many boys as possible. For those who are not as able, make a token pledge to show your support. A $1000 check from someone who makes $200k may not mean as much to a presenter as a $10 pledge from someone who makes

[SctDad]

FoS in my district and council is pitched with a misrepresentation.

 

Just to give you a general idea about our council/District

 

Council = Covers 20 counties of generally rural farmland and fishing as you get closer to the coast.

 

District = 2 Counties (mine is considered by some to the the poor county)that are primarily rural farmland, with a lot of migrant workers.

 

When they do the FoS Dinner for our County Businesses, they harp on the "THIS IS FOR THE LOCAL SCOUTS" "HELP THE LOCAL SCOUTS"

 

Then when we are selling popcorn we get "I just gave $2,000 (Sometimes more, our county is not that poor as most people think) to help you guys, what happened to that" All we can do at that time is to thank them and turn around and leave.

 

Do you realize how much the DE would lose in FoS if some of these people realized that the units never see this money.

 

Not to mention the costs of things in our council is all about making the extra money.

 

9 districts running Day Camps this summer for the Cubs. (tiger - W2) With the exception of 1 district, all Daycamps cost $60 for on-time registration.

 

Now this can be for the

Saturday Sunday all day programs, (16 Hours total)

Monday through Friday - Twilight program 6p-9p (15 hours total)

Or the All Week/All Day - Monday through friday 8a-4p (40 hours)

 

Does someone see where there is a problem. Some programs are getting screwed, while others are getting the same budget. Some parents get more for thier money than others.

 

BTW they all share patches and just change the color of the shirt.

 

They need to start informing the FoS people a little more about the actual use of the monies that they give.

 

Oh and as a side note: I had one parent/leader in my pack, that gave a decent amount to FoS every year (paid monthly). When he was recieving his District Pack Committee Member of the year award, it was mentioned that he paid for the PWD trophies because we did not have the budget. The SE (from the council)made the comment out loud n front of all the leaders at the awards banquet "Sell more popcorn" About two weeks later the DE asks me if I had heard from my leader, because his monthly payment had not come in yet. I guess he decided to stop after that comment. Our council is all about making money.

[Abel Magwitch]

83Eagle

 

You need to ask yourself just what does FOS cover and how does it directly benefit your unit. Ask yourself how your council has supported you over the past year.

 

In my council, there is listed on the FOS flyer "The true cost of scouting"

 

This is what my council has listed as costs. After reading all the so called costs, I made these observations: FOS is already conveniently built into the scouting program in my council as the volunteer is charged a fee for almost everything. Many times services are not rendered for the fees charged.

 

Volunteer and Staff Training Training for more than 1,000 volunteer leaders every year.

In my council, training is put on by volunteers and hosted at various sponsoring institutions at no cost to the council. Furthermore, there is always a $15 fee to attend training. Does this sound familiar?

 

Insurance Coverage To protect our volunteers, staff, members and property.

Isnt insurance is covered in a members registration fee? Do you not have the option to pay the council for additional optional insurance?

 

Support Staff for registration, typing publications, and program support.

Have you noticed that volunteers are being told to do more things on the internet like re-chartering and advancement? The volunteers are being burdened to do the data entry that was once done by the support staff.

 

Reference Publications and Resources Everything from program planning kits and Program helps to camping information books

I dont know about your council, but in mine you purchase these publications and planning kits at the Scout Store.

 

Administrative Needs Postage, computers and link-up to the National Computer System, copy machines, folding machines, print shop.

 

There is no longer a print shop in my council. The print shop was one of the first things our previous Council Executive got rid of to save money, yet it is still being listed on the FOS letter. Mailings could be folded and put into smaller envelopes to save postage, but many times mail is put in large, extra postage required envelopes. Many of the service center computers have been donated by big business.

 

Camp Equipment Tents, cooking equipment, camp vehicles, building repairs, canoes, equipment replacement and repair, and upkeep of your council camps.

 

(Tents? Troops supply their own tents in my council. As for the camp upkeep, the volunteers are always called upon, asking for free help and free supplies. At other times, the U.S. Navy Seabees, and other volunteers help maintain the camp at little or no cost. The scout office will even show volunteers paperwork that claims money has been spent on new rifles, yet it was written in an earlier council newsletter that the rifles were graciously donated. (Some pesky volunteers save their council newsletters.)

 

Recognitions For leaders who attend training, volunteer for special projects and help out in many roles throughout scouting.

 

There are always fees for training, fees to attend recognition dinners, fees to buy the awards etc. That is why the recognition dinners cost so much, funding is needed for the awards. The funding certainly does not come out of FOS. In my council, those who nominated someone for the award gets to purchase the award

 

Professional Staff Our full-time staff who work with volunteers to organize new units, manage fundraising programs, conduct trainings, work with membership recruitment, provide counseling and advice for your district, our camps, and programs.

 

Ask yourself who does the recruiting? Who organizes traditional units? Does not the volunteer who conducts training, recruits members, organizes units, runs camporees etc?

 

Service Center Utilities, insurance, repairs and care for your headquarters.

 

Our council service center got a makeover while a pool broke at camp and was simply filled in with dirt and the shower house razed. My Council has tapped into the natural resources at our council camp (logging, natural gas) yet the fees continue to rise.

 

Charter Fees For every Scouting youth, leader, and unit.

 

Who pays for your Charter fees? The council? Charter fees are paid for by the membership when they join.

 

Council Newsletter The council's bi-monthly is published so members know what is going on in scouting.

 

Our council newsletter is being printed at no cost to the council by a local printing firm. This was one of the reasons why the print shop was closed.

 

You should really ask yourself just how much the council supports your unit with FOS. Or do you find yourself paying fees upon fees to partake in a program that is run by volunteers.

 

[BS-87]

@Abel Magwitch

 

It's thinking like that which leads to FoS support fading, council employees getting laid off, Districts merging, Councils merging, less support from professionals to district leadership, less support from district leadership to commissioners, committee members, and unit leaders, less support from those groups to units in general, and then finally less support from units to the boys in their community.

 

When more people are involved in the process, more gets done and a better program exists. More people are also more expensive. Council get run into the red for that reason, because sometimes you just cannot do more with less. Stewardship, frugality, and cutbacks can only go so far before it starts really harming the program.

 

Out of every 100 Units, 90 would fail if the District and Council and National were not there as a resource and support.

[Abel Magwitch]

Actually, its false advertising that leads to fading support.

 

Its paying a fee for a promised program which is not delivered that leads to kids quitting.

 

I could go on.

 

 

BS-87, if you only knew what has been going on in my council for the past 30 years.(This message has been edited by abel magwitch)

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello Abel,

 

 

I'm afraid I don't find your examples persuasive. For example:

 

 

>

 

 

Your reply doesn't relate to the issue you cite. Your council office/service center no doubt DOES require maintenance, insurance and utilities. Instead you talk about your camp properties.

 

 

 

 

 

As a District Membership Chair, I have experience with these issues.

 

 

Most Council professionals, DE and higher, spend a good deal of time on aiding unit to do recruiting. A goodly number in my experience would do no recruiting at all, or not much, without district and council assistance and leadership.

 

My DE spent a good portion of a day earlier this year visiting possible chartered organizations to identify those that might sponsor new units. One was a labor union I've targeted as a possible Chartered Organization but hadn't gort around to visiting myself.

 

Volunteers play a vital role in organizing new units and in recruiting. But professionals usually play a key role too. Without the leadership of professionals the volunteers would often lack the skills and leadership to do the task themselves.

 

 

 

 

Well, fine on the tents. Does the US Navy and other volunteers show up on their own and know what to do, or are there paid staff who aid in organizing such things?

 

What about cooking equipment maintenance, repair and replacement? You mentioned that pool that got filled in and the shower house that was demoed ---- apparently there weren't enough volunteers to save that feature or council dollars either.

 

 

Your post illustrates why volunteer contributions are vital, but also why paid staff and council dollars are vital as well.

 

I see no indication in your post that volunteers could do the job by themselves or that the council program could be maintained just on fees and volunteers without drastically reducing the program, closing most or all the camps and so on.

 

Frankly, if people don't want to contribute to FOS because they can't afford it or they don't like the council or whatever, I have no objection. My FOS presentation last about ten minutes once a year. I don't consider sitting through that to be an unreasonable hardship.

 

 

[shortridge]

Seattle Pioneer wrote:

 

"Almost any District Executive would be delighted to have a unit select a unit volunteer to be the FOS chair for the unit. The FOS chair can choose the kind of presentation the unit would like to have, and do it in a way the unit prefers.

"So--- select your own FOS Chair and do it your way, or leave it up to the DE to do it his way. Which would you prefer?

 

In an ideal world, yes, that's how it should work. But that still doesn't mean a DE or DD or other professional whose job it is to raise money should be tone-deaf to the position of the audience.

[83Eagle]

Ok, everybody out there who thinks I don't personally understand the value of FOS to Scouting, take a deep breath. I never said that. In fact, our family has been a regular FOS contributor (not just 10 bucks either) for the entire time we've been involved in the program. I understand the need of the support system just like there is in any other organization.

 

shortridge said it perfectly: "But that still doesn't mean a DE or DD or other professional whose job it is to raise money should be tone-deaf to the position of the audience."

 

The presentation to our Pack was not about any of the points listed above. It was, 100%, "Donate to help poor kids JOIN scouts," and I do emphasize the word JOIN. "And oh, by the way, if you don't turn in your brochure, we WILL be calling you to follow up."

 

I felt it was a disingeuous approach at best, and left the adult volunteers in the program who know the financial situation of our Pack, and the money that WE pay to help kids JOIN the program, wondering, what the heck?

 

Seattle, you say we should recruit a FOS coordinator from our pack if we don't like the message. Well, I'm sorry, but I (as CM) am not going to beat the bushes looking for someone to take their time to do this when I have enough problems getting volunteers for "regular" pack stuff. In my opinion, if the district wants money, the district should come and ask for it. Disagree with me if you want, but that's my belief.

 

So, I will admit I passed the buck on this request to our committee (where it belongs, according to responsibility descriptions of the committee), and they wanted nothing to do with it.

 

So again, let me restate this hopefully completely clearly. I, personally, support FOS, both in principal and in principle. My complaint is with the message being used to solicit--as I said in my original post, in the past "the emphasis was on the total organization."

 

This year, the presentation was singularly focused and rather off-putting, a fact that was mentioned in unsolicited comments by many in attendance.

[5yearscouter]

FOS coordinator doesn't really take that much time. Especially if you want to do a low key presentation. I usually do it for our pack. I have the little cards with envelopes.

 

I pass these out to each family one on one with a note about the costs of scouting enclosed in the envelope--and I note that mostly the friends of scouting dollars cover support staff salary at council, with SOME going into camp upkeep and improvement(mostly that is from big money donations from businesses) and helping to pay utilities for the council office.

 

I include a link on the pack website to do online donations for those who are interested (council has that set up)

 

and I ask for the envelopes to be returned within 2 weeks with a donation enclosed, promise of a donation or zero written on the donation line.

 

then I collect about 5 envelopes back from a pack of 40 boys, usually a couple of grandparents donate $100, and a few throw in a $10 bill. On average we collect $250 a year for council.

 

In the past we WOULD get that money back in camperships, as we'd have a few boys apply for camperships to the webelos encampment ($180 per boy, plus $140 per adult for 3 nights, 4 days). Last year we had 2 boys ask for camperships and they were both denied. The pack covered the campership amounts requested (about $150 total) and has not done a FOS presentation yet this year.

 

I'm not certain if those two things are related, but our DE hasn't even asked us to do a FOS presentation yet and I'm still a bit cranky about the denied request for camperships.

 

BTW our pack recruits in a poor school district with 12 schools where most boys get free/reduced lunches (some schools are at 95% ffree/reduced) and the pack does all that it can to NOT pass the cost of scouting on to the parents for that reason.

[83Eagle]

FOS coordinator doesn't really take that much time.

 

In order to be a FOS coordinator, at least in our council, the volunteer has to go to offsite FOS training.

 

Truthfully, I would have been more than willing to pass out the brochures, explain why I thought it was important, and ask people to support scouting. But I'm not going to give up an entire evening to fit in FOS training.