Duty To God - Best Practices

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello BadenP,

 

Well, opinions differ, which is fine. The approach I described has worked well for me.

 

In particular, when I'm recruiting new families it's not unusual for parents to ask about the role of religion in the Scout unit they may join. Having a simple and concise reply that people can understand and appreciate is helpful at that moment.

 

I can tell parents:

 

1. We encourage Scouts to respect the religious traditions of their families and

 

2. We encourage Scout to respect the religious traditions of other families as well.

 

It may well be that BadenP has other religious traditions he promotes in his units.

 

Under BSA policies we are both entitled to our views and methods.

 

 

And of course if people are happy keeping their religious beliefs to themselves, that's perfectly fine with me.

 

 

(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

[shortridge]

I've found this document to be extremely helpful in outlining just how Scouting sees interfaith services (formerly known as a Scout's Own).

 

From the Interfaith Service training syllabus:

 

"An interfaith service is a brief worship or meditation, specifically designed for Scouting events where there may be members of more than one faith group. The intention of an interfaith service (formerly known as a Scouts Own) is to provide a spiritual focus during a camping experience that does not reflect the views of a particular denomination or faith. An interfaith service can be defined as a gathering of Scouts held to contribute to the development of their spirituality and to promote a fuller understanding of the Scout Oath and Law, with emphasis on ones Duty to God. Lets take a look at what this definition means.

 

"As explained herein, the goal is to provide an uplifting and positive experience for all attendees. It is not necessary to attempt to account for the sensitivities of every conceivable religion on Earth; rather, seek to account for those religions whose members reasonably might be expected to be present. As promoters of the religious emblems program, unit leaders should have a good sense of the religions of those unit members present on a campout. For larger camping activities, such as camporees, all unit leaders could be asked about members religious preferences to ensure that reasonable care is given to inclusiveness."(This message has been edited by shortridge)

[John-in-KC]

First, bad URL. This works:

http://www.scouting.org/Training/Adult/Supplemental/InterfaithService.aspx

 

Second, I like the guidance in the training module much, much better than what had been in the Scouts' Own:

 

Attendance at an Interfaith Service

 

Participation at an interfaith service should be a voluntary, uplifting experience for Scouts and leaders. It should be a friendly, welcoming experience for all. There should never be coercion or criticism concerning participation or nonparticipation in an interfaith service.

 

Some religions do not support the participation of their members in Interfaith Services. Some religions obligate their members to participation in a specific religious service; consequently, participation in an interfaith service may not meet this obligation. Some individuals may choose to participate in the interfaith service and also in a service of their own faith.

 

I'm still not thrilled with promoting the Scout Law to the level of Holy Writ.

[SSScout]

"Reverence to God and reverence for one's neighbour and reverence for oneself as a servant of God, is the basis of every form of religion. The method of expression of reverence to God varies with every sect and denomination. What sect or denomination a boy belongs to depends, as a rule, on his parents' wishes. It is they who decide. It is our business to respect their wishes and to second their efforts to inculcate reverence, whatever form of religion the boy professes."

 

Robert Baden-Powell, Aids to Scoutmastership

 

 

"The Humble, Meek, Merciful, Just, Pious and Devout Souls, are everywhere of one Religion; and when Death has taken off the Mask, they will know one another, tho' the divers Liveries they wear here make them Strangers."

 

William Penn (1644-1718) Quotes, from Some Fruits of Solitude 1682

 

I would suggest, again, that the purpose of religion is very similar among the many faiths. It is the mechanism that sets them apart. If we concentrate on the former and work around the latter, the "Scout's Own " is not an impossible activity to organize.

I would also suggest that it is not our place (as Akelas & Scouters) to LEAD discussions about "comparative religions". The boys are very capable of that; tent/cabin mates, late campfire sessions, trail hikes, cliff sitting all make such almost inevitable. Let it happen. Mom and dad (or the home pastor/rabbi/priest) will deal with the inevitable questions, as they should.

We should encourage such mind/soul searching, but not try to control or direct it.

[SeattlePioneer]

>

 

 

Boy leadership on religion is fine. Having Scouts decide on the content of their Scouts Own would be a good example.

 

But there is a suitable place for leadership and explanation by Scouters and adults just as there is in many other places in Scouting, in my opinion. Such things could be done well or poorly. The job of the Scoutmaster would be to see that such things are done well.

 

I gave the example earlier of a Jewish parent who on occasion led a prayer opening a Court of Honor in Hebrew and then English, something he did with great dignity.

 

Frankly, I've never seen anything similar which did more to command the respect of those who heard it.

 

If you've got someone with a significant talent, I'm going tio want to use him in my program, whether that a duty to God or orienteering.

 

Talent is talent.

 

 

But again, that's my bias and approach. If others wish to follow other practices they are welcome to do so.

 

 

 

Seattle Pioneer

[Budge]

Bearing in mind that the 23rd of this month is the day of worldwide scoutings patron saint, St George; do you find that this is a time for reflection, celebration and reaffirmation of our scout vows and promise with young people and adults or is this day not honoured in your groups?

 

Here, whilst St Georges day parade and service are invariably held in a Christian church, though not always, they are purposely designed to be non exclusive of any denomination and provide a united symbol of scouting. A very fine sight it is too with all groups from district bearing their colours.

 

The religious policy of the Scout Association is that we as leaders are supposed to encourage young people to follow their faith and if they haven't got one then not to indoctrinate them. Incidentally YP do not have to have a faith to become members whereas being an atheist is a bar to being a uniformed leader.

 

[BartHumphries]

There are a lot of comparative religion manuals out there for various college courses -- I highly recommend picking one up. I remember that I was astonished how similar (in broadly sweeping ways) all religions are when I first really started looking into them. For instance, all religions have some variant of the Golden Rule: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule

 

Hinduism, for example, has two concepts, the way of the cat (the mother cat picks up her babies and transports them from place to place) and the way of the monkey (the baby monkeys must cling to their mother's back as she jumps from tree to tree) which can essentially be translated into the Christian "saved by faith" (passive behavior will suffice because you will be "moved" regardless of what you do) and "saved by works" (one must hang on tight to be "moved"). Many people and religions hew strictly to one or the other and many people and religions blend those two in various ways, but we all have a good deal in common. Religions are like the Spanish and Portuguese languages or Norwegian and Swedish -- we're close enough that if we go slowly we can pretty much understand and be understood when we attempt to communicate, even though if you really delve into it there sure are a lot of major differences as well.

 

Many religions do have stricter requirements for one thing than another, but we can still be respectful of our differences and basically enjoy each others company. So, as far as "how" to conduct an interfaith ceremony, some other people in this thread have had great ideas. Invite individual people from different religions to give their "own" message to add their own touch to the proceedings. Be respectful, realize that no matter what you do the ceremony may be "nice" but "not enough" for some, that they require their own people/activities.

[Eamonn]

This "Duty To God" is a tough nut.

Being brought up in a strict Irish/ Catholic home. I was raised to believe that as Roman Catholics we had it right.

We were on the fast track to Heaven and in many ways we pitied and looked down on everyone else.

Of course being as I lived in England the schools at that time tended to go with some kind of generic form of Protestant religion.

Very often school Assemblies ended with the Lords Prayer with the "For thine is the power and the glory" on the tail end, which the R/C students didn't use.

Students who didn't want to stay for the prayer could leave.

Scouts and Scouting at that time in the UK was for the most part kinda along the same lines. Scouts Owns were nice little services, mainly held in a nice little outdoor chapel. But it was kinda taken for granted that most Scouts were Christian with maybe the odd Jewish Scout here and there.

I remember that a BSA Troop in the UK undertook rebuilding a chapel at an English National Camp Site (Walton Firs.) They did a fantastic job. They build a nice alter and behind the alter was a big cross made out of oak The chapel was used for Scouts Own services and R/C Mass when a priest could be found.

By the time I became an adult leader, things had changed a lot. England had become a lot more cosmopolitan and diverse.

The Troop I was S/L of had as many non-Christian Scouts as it did Christian.

As a Troop we did our best to respect the needs of each Scout and his religious beliefs.

The hardest part of this for us as a Troop was menu planning.

When I first became a leader, I was OK with bringing the R/C Scouts to mass with me, while one of the other adult leaders would take everyone else off to a local church, no matter what religion they might be.

Over time we did see this as not being the right thing to do.

All of the adults in the Troop belonged to a Christian based religion. None of us at that time really bothered to find out much about the other faiths and religions that the Scouts belonged too. But I think it's fair to say that at that time in the UK religion wasn't taken as much to heart as it is now here in the USA.

When I moved across the pond to the U.S I was very confused with all the different terms that were used:

Interfaith, Non-denominational, interdenominational, the list seems to go on and on.

Doing the right thing might seem hard. But doing the right thing for where you are at might not be so hard.

Where I live most of the population is white and belong to a Christian based religion. There was a Synagogue in the next little town but it closed due to lack of members.

Catering to the religious needs of the kids in our area is not hard and it un-lightly that anyone is going to get upset.

However the jail where I work, which has about 1,000 inmates has a 10% Muslim population. Respecting the religious needs of these guys is also important and might be a little more difficult for non-Muslims?

As Scouter's I don't feel that we should try and impose our religious beliefs on others.

I'm open to discussing mt own personal beliefs with Scouts. At times I do feel that I'm defending my religion. This sadly is more so in the light of the child abuse cases that have come about in the past few years. But, very often I have had chats with Scouts who are challenging their own religious upbringing and creeds and they are uncomfortable talking with their parents on the subject.

My feeling is that there are some unwritten rules that we need to follow. I really don't think we should ever challenge the parents of the Scout and the way they are bringing up their son.

While some knowledge about other religions is great, I don't believe I need to know all there is to know about other religions in order to be a good Scout Leader.

I believe that when it comes to working with Scouts, especially older Scouts who might be questioning their own religion, we need to keep an open mind and really practice active listening skills.

While membership does demand Duty to God, which does mean the acceptance of some kind of God or higher power. I'm happy to allow everyone to go about this in their own way.

If studentscout is happy doing whatever it is he is doing? I say more power to him!

I'm not in the business of preaching or converting. I am however in the business of setting a good example and living up to my own personal values and beliefs.

As a COR, I think the message should be about welcoming all and respect for all, while following the Scout Oath and Law.

Ea.