Who is the customer?

[moosetracker]

BP while I agree that the biggest / fattest donations are from people who use it for a write-off and could care less about the program.. There are the middle size donators that the local council counts on, and some are similar, and just write a check, while others are involved in the program, and use the donations to have a local pull.. I might only have one example, but I can not believe it is the only example out there. We have a businessman who donates generously. He has been a SM for years, and heads our NYLT program. At a council Training program it was discussed that we should not be running the old NYLT that is for Boy Scouts only. But the new NYLT For BS, Venturers and Explorers.. Our council will not change the current NYLT, and our philanthropist will not accept the change. So in our council the old NYLT is still being run. It was suggested that the Venturers & Explorers train up and run their own program.. (If the parallel program starts interesting Boy Scouts and they start attending it rather then the old program (It will be in competition), I do not know how our council will react to keep everyone happy.)

This example is what I was thinking about when I said some large donators, if they have an interest to do so, will see themselves as the customer, and use the donation to influence the program..

I would imagine that the one really fronting the money for the 'STEM-NOVA award be that Rex Tillerson or whoever may want input into the requirements for the award. Probably nothing else unless he has a grandchild, and wants to make waves. The bigger philanthropists I have a hard time imagining as a SM or district volunteer, and thus having real intrest in the program.. It is the middle level philanthropist that may want the influence locally.

 

[jhankins]

Why not run two weeks of NYLT, one for the money bags and one according to national policy? Eventually word will get out and your council president and SE will have some not nice words from National if that stuff isn't converted over to include Venturing Youth. I've already heard some significant threats from ladies in my council who were looking into a discrimination suit for the council not using the new NYLT course.

 

To me, the customer is anyone who has a stake in the BSA, financial or physical (donations, kids in the program, etc..). While BadenP doesn't think donors have a stake, I've had it both ways - a donor who only wants an annual report a year, to a donor who wanted a monthly breakfast meeting and an update on the state of my district whenever he asked for one.

 

 

[AvidSM]

The model I often use to try to explain scouting is it is like a franchise (think McDonalds). The BSA "owns" the franchise rights to the scouting program (think Big Mac). The Councils administrate the franchise to owners (CO's) within their area. The CO's hire managers and staff (adult volunteers) to run their Pack, Troop or Crew (the McDonalds restaurant).

 

Webster's defines a customer as, "one that purchases a commodity or service". Clearly, in this model, it is the families that pay for the program (the Big Mac) that is offered by the managers and staff of the operational unit. Neither the CO's nor the Council's Administrators fit this definition.

 

But, scouting is not a business - it is a MOVEMENT. People do not show up at a McDonalds to donate money so that some customers can eat for less (or free). And the McDonalds corporation would not solicit donations (FOS) from its customers to help pay the salaries and overhead of its administrative staff.

 

Scouting's mission is not to make a profit. So my model, and any other business model used to explain how scouting works, is imperfect. No one "owns" scouting - the movement is shared by all who make the emotional commitment to it.

 

Part of the conflict that I see between the scoutings volunteers and it's professionals is the idea of ownership. Some professionals think that the volunteers work for them (for free of course) - that they run the program by telling the volunteers what to do. And they deserve to be paid for this through FOS and other means. This really pisses off some volunteers, who feel that they own the program and the professionals only exist to serve them.

 

In this sense, you might see the volunteer as the customer. But, I don't see how you can call the professionals customers, when they are not paying for anything, but in fact asking to be paid.

 

[moosetracker]

jhankins - that is what our council is proposing. The two weeks of NYLT, old style and new style.. But, they have to get the staff for the new style NYLT. But, after a while, I can see the new style competing for those Boy Scouts who would have gone to the old style had it been the only one offered.. Competition for the same customer.. I am unsure our Mr. moneybags will be happy if the new style wins over.. But, since he has a very zelous well trained seasoned staff, I suspect the new style with the new unseasoned staff will take a few years to give him a run for his money..

 

Edited to add : I am unsure if in this guys mind he is anti female or anti Venturing program.. He is anti something, but it may not be sexual discrimination if he will not welcome any Venture / Explorer male or female..(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

[BadenP]

Hey moose

 

All I can say in reply is if your SE allows one individual, even if he does give extra moolah to the council, control training and program in your council then you got a lot bigger problem than you think. Time for you guys to get a new SE with some backbone to begin with. This double version of NYLT does a great disservice to your youth and your council.

[Oak Tree]

I don't think Rex Tillerson will be demanding any ridiculous items in response to being a donor. His day job is being the CEO of Exxon.

 

He was at the National Jamboree, spent time talking with regular Scouts and Scouters. He was wearing his own uniform from when his son was in Scouts. I'm sure he's worth hundreds of millions of dollars, and he's the National President. If he wants to implement something, he can probably make it happen. The only thing I think he might concern himself with would be items of national policy. I've often wondered how the CEOs of these Fortune 500 companies perceive the discrimination complaints against the BSA. I'm sure Exxon is aggressive about not allowing discrimination based on sexuality or religion or gender. I'd think the CEOs would virtually have to align themselves with that policy in any public statements, but then you do have the other national customers - the large COs - lining up on the other side.

[BadenP]

Oak Tree

 

I hope that you understand that the National BSA President is more of an honorary title with no real authority. It allows the BSA to select a mover and shaker and add their name/clout to the BSA, of course after making a suitable large contribution to the organization.

[Engineer61]

Ironically, the organizational structures that you all have described sounds like those in a number of large European-style high-tech companies that I have worked for over the years.

 

In an attempt to keep little kingdoms intact, a cloud of bureaucracies have formed, each apparently thinking that they own something, owe nothing to any of the other bureaus but should be paid for their perceived services by the other bureaus.

 

Income, from what ever source, enters through multiple points in the structure, which gives the owner of the entry point the perception that he is the contact point for "the customer". And is somehow distributed.

 

I can imagine that the frustration level in each of the bureaus ebbs and flows quite a bit.

 

Personally, I think the boys are the customers, because they are the end recipient of the services that BSA provides.

 

But...what do I know...lol

[SeattlePioneer]

There is no single customer for a council.

 

 

There are a variety of people, interest groups, sources of funding, organizations and such which need to find ways to work harmoniously to carry out the varying purposes of Scouting.

 

The most amazing thing to me is that so many volunteers manage to work together to carry out the program with relatively little friction.

[NJCubScouter]

What are the old and new "styles" of NYLT that some of you are talking about? Does it come down to whether young women (from Venturing and Exploring) are allowed or not?

 

If that's the case, in the "new style," does this mean coed troops in NYLT? Coed patrols? Or what?

[Oak Tree]

BadenP - Yep, roger that. Rex has no time for the minutiae of BSA policy politics anyway. Still, even with just the title, add that to the donations and the support of Exxon and whatever, and I'm still saying that if he wanted to get something done, he could just shoot his good friend Bob an email and things would happen.

 

I'm still curious to see how some of these companies reconcile their sponsorship with their diversity policies. Some companies will not make matching donations to BSA because of the gay issue. Exxon isn't in that camp, yet, but some other big companies, like IBM, are. At some point we'll get to see which customers carry the most weight.

[oldisnewagain1]

Might I suggest the boys and, to a lesser extent, troops are consumers of Scouting?

 

My thought behind this is if a scout is unhappy with a troop he could switch troops. Just like an unhappy customer at one McDonalds might have a better experience at another McDonalds or in the worst case switch to Burger King. If enough customers switch they might change management or just close that McDonalds. (Is a troop in trouble so different?)

 

What if a troop is unhappy with their district or council events and do their own campouts, events, and training instead? Maybe the troop dislikes the summer camp run by the council and have chosen another camp out of council. Another example, Leaders (both youth and adults) going out of council for training because the training is not offered or they do not like the training offered locally.

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by oldisnewagain1)

[OldGreyEagle]

If the Customer is not the Youth, then many of us are sadly mistaken,

 

The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.

 

No reference to no one but young people

 

What was that tag line that an old Wood Badge Beaver had, "If it ai'nt for the boys, it ai'nt worth a dam?"

 

Substitute Youth for boys and I am in

 

What is most valuable in Scouting? ranked from most impertant to least

 

The Boy

The Patrol

The Troop

The District

The Council

The Area

The Region

National

 

Not that that list of sometimes forgotten

 

 

[SR540Beaver]

NJCub,

 

NYLT has gone "program neutral" like Wood Badge did when they did away with the various forms and combined all BSA programs under one umbrella. It ain't just for Boy Scouts anymore. I've not seen the new syllabus, but I assume it still uses the Troop and Patrol structure even though it is co-ed with the inclusion of Venturing. What really makes all of this fun is that with changes that have come down in the last two years in WB and NYLT, you can attend NYLT up to 21 now as a Venturer and turn around and attend WB at 18 as a Scouter.

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello Old Grey Eagle,

 

 

Boys are certainly one "customer" of Scouting, but only one in my opinion.

 

Just for openers, if you think you can ignore volunteers as your model does, I think it's incomplete.

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with saying that there are a variety of customers in Scouting each of which must be kept satis fied and kept working together harmoniously, as I suggested in my earlier post.

 

That describes reality better in my opinion.