bylaws and the committee

[security_man]

I am a member of a very old troop whos bylaws (if they ever existed) cannot be found. An issue came up recently where there was a disagreement over the quorum requirements on a previous meeting where some controversial decisions were made. My question is, if there are no bylaws to refer to then what is the default set of rules to go by?

[Oak Tree]

The default set of rules are those published by the BSA in the various documents. Nowhere are given detailed instructions on how (or even whether) to conduct votes, determine quorum, etc.

 

If there are no bylaws, then it's up to the committee to decide. In practice, the committee chair can decide, but it's always good to build a consensus.

[Pack362Den1]

No bylaws and if BSA does not provide any information on committee rules then go with

Robert's Rules of Order. Typically it's majority for votes. Requiring a 2/3rds vote in small committees or boards can get many topics tabled due to not enough voters attending.

 

http://www.robertsrules.com/

 

Start writing those Bylaws.

 

[Beavah]

Yah, hmmmmm....

 

Yeh see that cliff? You're standin' on da edge and the ground is shaky. Step slowly and carefully away from da edge!

 

Welcome to the forums, security_man.

 

I think when yeh run into a situation in a kids' program where there's some controversy, it's best for everyone to take a step back from the edge, eh? Stop worryin' about quorums and bylaws and who gets to "win" on the issue. Go back to being adults just trying to do somethin' fun and interesting for kids.

 

And that means that, since there's controversy, yeh should set the decision aside for the moment and go back to talking about your vision for the program. What is it that yeh all can agree on? What does building character in youth mean to everybody? What does showin' character mean?

 

Now, if the real dispute is about vision for the program, then yeh either talk that out or the Chartered Organization decides it for you. It's their program. But if the dispute is just about some part of the program, like whether to buy a new trailer or new tents, then like good adults yeh just step back, get more input, and work through what will help the vision the most. When in doubt, trust the SM and the SPL, because they're the ones in the thick of things.

 

If yeh have more details, perhaps we can offer yeh more advice. At this point all I can say is that goin' down Disputatious Alley and quibblin' about quorums oft as not tears a troop apart.

 

Beavah

 

[NJCubScouter]

security man, just out of curiosity, how many members were at the meeting in question and how many registered committee members does your unit have. And if the number of "active" committee members is different from the number registered, how many of those are there?

 

Robert's Rules says that a quorum is a majority of the membership unless the bylaws state otherwise. The trick is that Robert's Rules does not actually apply to your committee or any other organization UNLESS you have bylaws that adopt that book as the parliamentary authority. So if you have no bylaws or can't find the bylaws, Robert's doesn't necessarily apply. It's not the only book available.

 

Of all the committee meetings I have ever attended, we have never worried about what a quorum is, and we seldom take actual "votes". The general attitude seems to be that if you don't show up, you don't get to participate in the decision-making. There have been a few major issues where the committee chair has tried to make sure that members were aware beforehand that a particular issue was going to come up, so nobody could complain later that an action was done behind their back. That is a common-sense approach that does not require bylaws or rules, rather it requires a committee chair who wants to promote harmony and teamwork rather than just dictating. If you don't have that, then you have to start worrying about things like what the quorum is.

[FScouter]

If you have "controversial" issues such that there is argument as to whether a "vote" was legal or not, due to lack of "quorum", then you have people problems that will not be solved through bylaws.

 

The purpose of bylaws is for one person to "legally" ram their idea down someone else's throat.

[John-in-KC]

If the committee cannot reach a consensus decision, then it's time for the CC, the SM, and the dissenter to have a business visit with the COR.

 

The Chartered Partner is the licensee of record, it owns the unit.

 

When the COR makes a decision, it's done.

 

 

[emb021]

As a parlamentarian, am very familiar with bylaws. Most organizations have them, and those large organizations that have local 'chapters', usually require them to have them and provide atleast templates to such groups to create them.

 

The BSA feels that unit committees don't need bylaws. This makes sense to a degree, as unit committees are not deliberative groups. They should not be making decisions, but supporting the troop. So speaking of quorums, voting, and the like don't quite work. All information regarding their operation (which would be the purpose of bylaws) is defined in other documents, such as the "Troop Committee Guidebook".

 

as to some of the other comments I saw here:

 

"The trick is that Robert's Rules does not actually apply to your committee or any other organization UNLESS you have bylaws that adopt that book as the parliamentary authority. So if you have no bylaws or can't find the bylaws, Robert's doesn't necessarily apply."

 

Bzzzt. Sorry, not quite so. The courts HAVE determined that organizations ARE subject to common parlimentary law. Robert's Rules of Order is just ONE enunciation of parliamentary procedure/law. So you ARE subject to the basics. While there are differences between various parliamentary authorities, they do follow a common set of basic concepts.

 

"The purpose of bylaws is for one person to "legally" ram their idea down someone else's throat."

 

That's a very cynical attitude.

 

The purpose of bylaws is to define how the organization is organized.

 

Organizations follow parliamentary procedure, which is about the rules to follow to bring forth ideas, discuss them and make a decision AS A GROUP.

 

 

[CalicoPenn]

There is no hard and fast rule on what a quorum is - unless it's in the governing documents of an organization - and an organization may make the quorum number anything they want.

 

Your quorum could be "The Number of Registered Committee Members at the meeting". This means if you have 10 registred committee members, and only 2 show up to a scheduled meeting, the quorum is 2 - and you've met the requirements.

 

I'd suggest listening to what Beavah has to say - just sit down and talk it out. Too often, only one person has a problem with it and it becomes a "controversy" when they start complaining about the decisions. Let the folks who have an issue with the decisions make their case - adjust if you decide you need to. Or don't adjust and stick with the decision.

 

You don't need bylaws (which is probably why you can't find them - the wise folks that preceeded you in this very old Troop were wise indeed by not falling into that trap). All you really need to do is to just get along.

 

If you can't find common ground, then ask for help from the Unit Commissioner, or the COR.