Our current Negitive news-worthy scout

[moosetracker]

It might just be of local interest.. I was wondering if any of you guys were following the news about the two scouts that had murdered a mother and left a child for dead in Mont Vernon NH? Christopher Gribble and Steven Spader (there were 4 involved, but the 2 that did the killing were the two scouts)..

 

The kid currently on trial is the Eagle Scout.. The other already had their trial, and was found guilty, he never made Eagle, but was Life I think..

 

Two shining examples of why the rank of Eagle does not mean a thing unless you have learned the true value of being a scout while you are going through the motions.

 

The first kid on trial tried to say he wasn't a part of it, although they had tons of evidence that pointed to him..

 

The second kid is currently trying to worm his way out of a life sentence by pleading insanity.. From all I read, he is cold blooded but not insane. He tried holding up some conseling when he was 17 as proof he was insane, but both conselors stated he was depressed and anti social, but neither diagnosed him as insane..

 

Then I have no clue if this was to point out he was insane, or if he really felt this was abuse.. But he pointed to his mother as abusive because she made him vacuum once when he was 6 years old.. If he did no other household chores except for this one time vacuuming, I would point to that as a reason he was so self-centered (not insane).. And how did he get through Family life if that was his one time tramatic household chore??

 

He also pointed to a few spankings and was once hit with a wooden spoon.. Ha.. my mom's favorite was a wooden spoon also.. And I get hit more then once, still I didn't grow up to murder anyone.. And although we kids would hide the wooden spoons in the house if we did something wrong, I can't say I felt it was abuse.. I bet the belt hurt more..

 

Even though now adays society frowns on physical punishment, there are alot of us kids who grew up in an era that it was exceptable, so if that was so abusive as to cause us to go insane and murder people, why were murders less frequent in that time period??

 

Not saying it is great to get spanked, but, it is a tramatic abuse either.

 

So both kids not only did this horrible thing, when they were both caught.. They both tried different approaches to try to worm their way out.. There were four in all, the other two (not scouts).. are being tried with smaller sentences, because

a) they didn't do the killings, although they were part of the break-in and stood outside while it took place..

b) When caught they accepted their responsibility in the act, and turned states evidence on the other two.

 

Talk about two kids who learned nothing during their scouting years. Just went through the motions..

 

http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2011/03/gribble_testifi_1.html

 

http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Gribble%3a+%27I+was+very+controlled%27+during+murder%3b+Spader+%27looked+like+he+was+in+a+rage%27&articleId=c1380665-32d9-4936-a37f-706e42893f7a

 

 

[Scoutfish]

Gotta wonder if the parents were the parents at scout fuctions who tried to bend the rules, get signoffs behind the SM's back, and were the tuype who thought every scout activity we all about their own child only.

 

Maybe rolling up a tent was just as good as actually pitching a tent.

 

Maybe mom and dad only brought junior to 4 den meetings all year long, but had a sheet that said Junior did every single Beltloop and pin.

 

If so, then the boys did learn well....just from the wrong teachers!

[clemlaw]

According to the NESA website, his Eagle BOR date was November 2007, and the article says that he is currently 21. So that would make him 17 or almost 18 at the time of the BOR.

 

So presumably his troop wasn't an "Eagle Mill", although I guess he could qualify as a "Deathbed Eagle".

[grmaerika]

Sad story about four sad characters. No matter how much we try to do our best and offer kids a good program there will always be kids that ...are whacked! I know nothing really about being an Eagle Scout, but I do know that there seems to be a rise in cold blooded killing done by teens. Something is amiss in our society when these kids seem to end up as emotionless Zombies totally disconnected from reality.There is no way in the world Scouting would ever lead to THAT. A very disturbing story. Hopefully it won't lead to denying kids the opportunity for archery, using bb guns, and learning to use knives. I have a hunch that the"virtual world" is sucking our kids brains out, but alot of people consider that "safe", since their kid will have no chance of falling out of a tree if they're tied to their computers.

[moosetracker]

grmaerika - I have no doubt.. Scouting did not lead to their downfall.. Now the troops program may not have been the best, so did not teach them what it should have.. Or it could have been a great program, that these two boys went through blindly, going through the motions without choosing to learn what was being taught..

 

But, I do not believe there is some troop that is promoting this type of behavior.. If the troop has a good program, then I feel bad for this black spot in their history..

 

Also the parents maybe to blame, or may not.. I do think that if all he had to point at was one time having to vacuum in his life, and not weekly chores he was forced to do week after week, like feeding the cats, or setting the table.. Well then these parents were lax in teaching them about responsibility..

 

I feel for the mother being put on the stand and the son trying to place the blame on her.. I just invision myself in her position. My son could point to horrible things, like making him cook a meal once a week, or having him help paint the house one summer, or my horrible punishment of making him write a report per week for a full month because he lied to me and said he had written a report he needed for school, only to fail because he never wrote it or handed it in. And now we are horrible enough to expect him to pay for his own gas and insurance for his car.. I am sure if I asked my son he would have a longer list then I about how horrible a mother I am..

 

 

 

You are probably more accurate that it is the "virtual" reality. As well as the shock content in many movies, and music.. Kind of makes you scared of the coming generation, huh..

 

[clemlaw]

>>>> Now the troops program may not have been the best, so did not teach them what it should have.. Or it could have been a great program, that these two boys went through blindly, going through the motions without choosing to learn what was being taught..

[OldGreyEagle]

Yiayia's the world over have said "Tha fas ksilo!" for generations and yet their grandchilden don't become homicidal

[GKlose]

I had a classmate that was in our after-school den (my mom was our den mother), circa 1970 or so. The last time I really had contact with him was when I was in a 7th grade "industrial arts" class with him. The instructor rode him hard. The instructor would announce that he always handed out 64s for Fs, because even a little bit of effort would bring the grade up to a passing 65. Then he'd make a showing of handing out all of the papers that had 64s. This kid from our den got a lot of these papers.

 

Many years later, after my college years, my mom sent several newspaper clippings to me. The kid was arrested, and later tried, for murdering his parents. The story, as I recall, was that these many years later, the parents had decided that it was time for a little tough love and refused to hand over money for drugs to him. He responded to them by bludgeoning them to death with a baseball bat. Afterward, he called the police and then sat down and waited for them.

 

It does make me sad. I remember him as being an okay kid. I don't recall anyone bullying him or anything like that, but I do have that distinct memory of shop class with him. I do wish that his story had a different outcome.

 

Guy

[acco40]

The human brain is a complex organ (duh!) and is also not completely developed until the age of 25 or so. Growing up, a teen a few years younger than me shot and killed his mother because she did not allow him to use the family car one night. I believe he was 16 at the time.

 

I think some of the marketing of the BSA propagates the myth that somehow Eagle Scouts are "above" average folk. Both of my sons have earned Eagle and are great kids but I don't kid myself into believing they somehow are morally superior or special. Do "good" kids excel at the BSA program and attain the rank of Eagle at a higher rate than those that are not? Probably. So does the program make the boy or the boy make the program? Probably a little of both.

 

Maybe the scouting program helped these kids by preventing them from other heinous crimes? Who knows?

[nldscout]

If anyone thinks that they can influence what happens with a scout a whole lot after he leaves the troop and goes on to lifes other things is sadly mistaken. Other factors come into play, especially drugs and alcohol, add peer pressure to that and you never know what will happen.

 

I will tell you one of the darkest days I have had as a judge was being called on a saturday night to arraign 2 people on a whole litiny of charges and walking out of my office to take the bench and there sat, in handcuffs , a young man who made eagle while I was the SM 4 years before. I think he knew I was unhappy with him was an understatement.

 

(This message has been edited by nldscout)

[5scoutmom]

GKlose -

 

You DID see someone bullying that boy - the shop teacher. I am sure that many of us of a certain age witnessed episodes like that and that the vast majority of the kids involved did not grow up to kill their parents.

 

I followed the story the OP mentioned but did not realize the young men were Scouts. Not all boys who join scouts are angels. A former scout in my town was recently arrested for menacing another kid (both HS sophs) with the knife he was given for earning Totin' Chip.

 

I don't know that scouts or the parents can be faulted. I truly believe that there are just people who are evil... The boy in NH said he wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone. Why anyone would ever want to feel that feeling is beyond me but maybe it's attributable to violent video games or abusive parents but I doubt that an hour or a weekend of scouting for a few years has anything to do with it.

[Basementdweller]

Our esteemed Eagles are merely people after all.

 

 

Why is it a surprise that a percentage of them are criminals????? Sure he said the oath and law probably on a weekly basis. It is merely words to be repeated.

 

 

Sadly I know a number of dead beat Eagles, Twenty and Thirty something eagles that live at home with their parents, playing video games and getting stoned, a couple work as gas station attendants, other are on disability for addiction, classic isn't it. They turn up at district and council events from time to time.

 

How do you explain a stoner Eagle to your wolf den?????

 

Eagle's are just people after all

[Basementdweller]

Bullying is over rated.

 

I had my head dunked in the toilet for years, my trumpet case packed with snow, my locker glued shut, called everything but smart in high school.

 

My revenge was showing up to the class reunion with a nice truck, and beautiful wife. Amazing how those football jocks look after 25 years.....and how pathetic they are reliving the football years.......I am glad my live didn't peak at 17 and I am still creating fantasic memories.

 

 

Bullying is an excuse for bad or lack of parenting. Guess dad should have paid a little closer attention to JR.

[moosetracker]

You are absolutly correct Basement..

 

You just hate it while they are very recent Eagles, enough for the paper to flash the fact and make the corrolation.. At 30 or 40 years old, if they then become a killer, or is arrested in a huge drug bust, their title of Eagle, usually isn't entered into the news story, as other influences in their lives, normally take precedence over some award they got before they were 18..

[Basementdweller]

So are recent Eagles better or worse than older Eagles??????

 

So is an Eagle scout who murders.....better or worse at 18, 30, 40 or 60 years of age?????

 

I think it is irrelevant. He is a dirt bag and cocky his interview is pathetic. I would cringe if I was his attorney after reading that.

 

 

I don't think all that much of the Eagle rank any more......Seen some really terrible families receive it and some horribly weak scouts who now get to call themselves eagles. I am an Eagle........(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)