Chartered Oraganizations/Chartered Organization Reps

[SeattlePioneer]

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I usually find this kind of question on this board kind of naive. No harm in asking about where the chartered organization is for troubled unit is, of course, but the usual answer is "out to lunch."

 

Most don't have expertise in Scouting and don't have much in the way of resources to offer to Scout units that need help. Most Chartered Organization Reps are ciphers who don't pay attention to units and don't respond to invitations to become informed or trained.

 

My Cub Pack is chartered by a Catholic parish. It was down to a single boy without the parish getting involved.

 

I atteneded a dioces Scouting Committee meeting to see if they had advice on how to make the pack more a part of the parish community. Nothin there, really.

 

This is the second year we've done Scout Sunday with the church. We recently did a service project for the church, cleaning the sanctuary before the Sunday services, and invuited the Parish Priest and the church lay administrator to our Blue and Gold Dinner, but no one attended.

 

I find getting a chartered orgainization more involved with the unit one of those "easier said than done" issues.

 

 

[Eagledad]

>>I find getting a chartered orgainization more involved with the unit one of those "easier said than done" issues.

[Beavah]

Yep, COs are busy with lots of things. I bet da pastor of your parish, SP, doesn't even pay close attention to other ministries. Too busy doin' what pastors do. So he let's da sacristy ladies do their thing, the knight fellows to do their thing and so on. No different for scouting.

 

I think it's mostly our job as scouters (or sacristy ladies) to "stay on the radar" of the CO, but it's a two-way street. Yeh should report at least once a year to da IH, share your financials, share your successes... And share your needs. Ask for stuff.

 

For one, I always try to encourage da CO to pay the recharter fee for the unit and at least for the adults, eh? They have to have some skin in the game, and have to see that they are payin' for the adults they selected. Even if the unit in turn gives 'em a donation that more than covers it, the expense should show up on their financials. Get 'em to pay for the kids, too, or for training or camperships.

 

Don't take the fact that doin' full time ministry work takes up their time. Be grateful yeh have a relationship with such dedicated folks who still care enough to accept responsibility for your work and to enable your ministry to kids.

 

Same with districts, eh? Da BSA is just one small-potatoes service provider for a CO. It's nice sometimes when a vendor takes yeh to lunch, but only if yeh happen to be free. The BSA is just a vendor. If a district isn't gettin' attendance at it's events for customers, yeh work harder to figure out what your customers want or need. It might not be lunch.

 

Beavah

 

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[DancesWithSpreadsheets]

Eagledad wrote:

"A few years ago our DE invited all the charter reps in the district (almost 50) to a free lunch where the he could get to know them and talk about the future of scouting. Three showed up."

 

The rest probably thought they were going to be subjected to an FOS pitch.

 

Regards,

DWS

[Eagle92]

Most don't have expertise in Scouting and don't have much in the way of resources to offer to Scout units that need help.

 

Even the ones with expereince sometimes do not want to get involved. The IH/COR of one pack was involved as an ASM with a troop. He complained to me about the pack's CM and that all the folks recruited in the fall would quit by January, and the troop was not getting anyone from the pack as they would all quit. He wanted me as the DE to fire her. When I told him that only he could do it, he was admant that he would not get involved adn that I needed to deal with it.

[shortridge]

I bet da pastor of your parish, SP, doesn't even pay close attention to other ministries. Too busy doin' what pastors do. So he let's da sacristy ladies do their thing, the knight fellows to do their thing and so on. No different for scouting.

 

And yet I'd bet a pastor at least gets reports or updates from those different ministries and groups. He or she knows who the leaders are, and keeps in touch on a regular basis. It wouldn't take a tremendous amount of time to do the same with the Scoutmaster, Cubmaster, Crew Advisor, CCs, etc.

 

I've always liked the description in the official BSA material likening the COR to the head of the "Scouting department" of an organization. That's a very good way of thinking about yourself - as an integral part of a group, not a sideshow.

[Hawkrod]

I had teh same issues but in a very backwards way. I was made COR and really had no idea what was involved. I took the training and got a pretty good handle on it but it wasn't until I had issues outside of my unit and came here that I really fully came to comprehend what a COR "should" be doing. I have spent several years getting the CO involved with our units as they were totally hands off when I came along but they are now involved and several of them have become registered adults including one who has Scouting history and has become an Eagle Co-Chair for the District. The real trick is get them to name somebody who is both a member of the unit and of the CO as COR and then have them focus on relations. Make sure they come to committee meetings for the unit and go to any CO meetings. If you have a face that is at CO meetings on a regular basis you will end up with a decent voice especially as far as things like facilities go. It is a two way street though. The unit must be fulfilling the CO's goals and have an obligation to support the CO. Doing service is by far the best way but also if you are a church based unit make sure that the boys who are of that faith work on the religious awards so the CO will view the unit as part of their youth ministry (they do like getting behind that!).

[BadenP]

To play the devils advocate here, as both a CC and COR for my crew, how many of you out there either tried to develop a relationship with your CO or were so desperate to get a CO that you just found anyone willing to sign the papers without telling them what their responsiblities really are? Look it is impossible for any priest or minister to give your unit much time and frankly you should NOT expect it. Your COR if he is just a on paper only you need to get your CC to find you another one who will be more active. Look in all my years in scouting churches and most service clubs make lousy, uninvolved CO's and until there is a problem most unit leaders like that hands off leave us alone approach.

 

Bottom line you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want an involved and active CO you also run the risk of them telling you how they want you to do things, and if they observe something or hear something they don't like they will tell you what changes they want the unit to make. Active CO's play an active part in the running of their units, period. Unfortunately the majority of them are not and do not want to get involved with your unit. So we scouters have to make a choice do you want your CO calling the shots or do you want them to leave you alone? If you choose the later it is unreasonable and unrealistic of you to expect them to come to your rescue when something happens. Remember according to the charter the BSA contracts with the CO not the individual unit and the CO calls the shots, not the unit leaders, thats what the documents say, so be careful what you wish for.

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello Beavah,

 

 

 

[Eagledad]

>>Bottom line you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want an involved and active CO you also run the risk of them telling you how they want you to do things, and if they observe something or hear something they don't like they will tell you what changes they want the unit to make. Active CO's play an active part in the running of their units, period. Unfortunately the majority of them are not and do not want to get involved with your unit<

 

Let me play the role of a member of the district committee who works with units and COs. I cant think of one unit that thinks in the way you describe. Most units need a good relationship with COs so they can have easier access to property and assistance. In fact, I would say the majority of complaints are from units requesting help to get the CO more attentive to the unit.

 

Truth is that most scout units function fairly smoothly compared to other parts of the CO programs. The COs put their valuable volunteer efforts toward the fires, so they typically leave the units alone. Our troop finally worked out a solution where we were invited to the church council meeting once a month and the COR visited a Troop meeting once a month. The COR was once a scout and really supports the program, but since he wasn't involved in the troop, he said attending a meeting was fairly boring and we didnt seem him much after six months. We found the same problem with the church council meetings. Eventually the agenda was adjusted so that we could give a report first then leave because the rest of the church council meeting was, well boring.

 

I will say the way we got our CO to give us any kind of attention was to threaten to look for a new CO. As I said, our troop was one of the few programs in the church that didnt require any volunteer effort on their part to maintain, so they wanted us to stay just to look good on their reports.

 

Barry

 

[OldGreyEagle]

to paraphase a great quote

 

Units get the Charterinng Organization they deserve

 

If you keep the relationship open and vibrant, you get an open and vibrant CO, if you want to be the scuts that meet in the basement on Tuesday, then just do that and that's all you will be

 

Interesting thought would be how much scouting would change if the CO's really understood their role...

[Buffalo Skipper]

We are fortunate. Our COR is 70+ and retired. He was a executive for the regional power company for his entire career. He earned his Eagle with our troop in 1953. He was SM during the early 60s. His son earned his Eagle in the early 80s. In the mid 90s, he served as interim District Chair when someone steped down unexpectedly. He still serves on Eagle Boards (and has for some 20+ years). Being a product of the post WWII scouting era, he and I are in complete agreement on how the program should run.

 

I can hardly imagine a better COR if I could have "made" him myself.

[BadenP]

Barry

 

In answer to your question you either live in a council that is in perfect working order, which I highly doubt, or you base your statement on your own unit or very limited exposure to other units. The truth is most units want a cordial relationship with their CO just as long as the CO allows them total control in running the program and "interfers" as little as possible.

This conclusion is based on my over 25 years as ACM, ASM, SM, Advisor, COR/CC, in four councils, and as a DE for five years serving two large districts and over 150 units.

 

The units with a good working relationship with their CO, and by that I mean good give and take, good 2 way communication, and the CO taking an active participating role are less than 20% , and I think after you participating in this forum for so long you know this to be true as well. There are unfortunately too many leaders out there who want to maintain total control and just want the CO to give them a place to meet and sign all the papers when required, and leave them alone the rest of the time. Talk to any well experienced unit commissioners who will tell you the same thing. The truth is that many leaders and most CO's do not really understand their responsibilities to each other, and unfortunately councils do a poor job getting that information to both parties involved. That is why when serious problems do come up they become major disasters as neither party knows the proper procedures to deal with them in too many cases.

[jhankins]

Having your COR involved really is a double-edged sword, as Eagledad mentioned. The more they understand their job, the more authority they can send to the program and leadership.

 

Having said that, though, some of the CORs I've trained in the past few years have actually dropped their units when they realize how they're not fulfilling their role, or want the responsibility.

 

I've yet to see more than 2 or 3 CORs in my district actually do the job properly.

[ScoutNut]

>>"I usually find this kind of question on this board kind of naive."