"Fagged Out"

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello shortridge,

 

 

For someone careful with words, you seem to use them carelessly.

 

Read the original remark in which "fagged out" was used as a synonym for "tired" in an entirely innocent way.

 

I did the Google search for "fagged" out and posted the results, which disclose that the term has an innocent if British history.

 

Your suggestion was to search for ways that "faggot" COULD be used in an offensive way, which I had already agreed that it could be, and therefore shouldn't be used that way. And of course "faggot" wasn't even the word used.

 

 

 

Now I'd like to ask you about case #2 --- use of the term "homophobe." I find that an offensive piece of pseudo scientific hate language which is commonly used to imply that a person with a principled disagreement with the liberal/homosexual political and social agenda is sick with hate and fear. It's a term from politics these days, not psychology. And used in a casual way to savage those the user doesn't like and doesn't agree with:

 

 

 

>

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophobia

(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

[WAKWIB]

This whole thread seems a little queer to me.

[shortridge]

SeattlePioneer,

 

Please don't twist my words around. Whether you're talking about fag, faggot, fagged or what-have-you, it's all part of the same word today, no matter the origins and roots. Saying otherwise in an innocent tone of voice - "Oh, 'fagged out' has nothing to do with the word 'fag' " - is utterly intellectually dishonest. Same with the relationship between "niggardly" and another similar word that's widely considered unacceptable. Try making that argument to a room of Boy Scouts. Their B.S. detectors will shut you down in a heartbeat.

 

The etymology doesn't matter - what matter is how it's used today. And you can't deny that "fag" and its variants is a slur - just like terms for Italians, Jews and blacks and a hundred other words that you wouldn't even think of using publicly because you'd rightfully get smacked. "Fag" should not be acceptable in a Scouting context just because Irving and a segment of the national membership have given sanction to institutionalized bigotry against gay people.

 

You clearly have a political agenda here and just want to argue. I'm not getting into a discussion of "homophobe" or any other word with you. I don't play with straw men. I've explained my reasoning and concerns, and that's all I have to say.

[Eamonn]

About 27 years ago, HWMBO and yours truly were upstairs on a number 28 bus, heading down the Wandsworth Bridge Road, in London. (At that time smoking was permitted on the upper deck of London buses.)

HWMBO was born and breed in the small American hamlet where we now live.

She nearly fell off her seat when she seen a billboard advertising Fagots in Gravy. I think Tesco's were selling them frozen.

I have never cooked them.

I think at one time they were popular in the north of England and in Scotland.

Here is a recipe:

Ingredients: Serves 4

1 pigs liver - diced

1 pigs heart - diced

6 rashers streaky bacon - cut into strips

250g pork belly - diced

2 medium sized onions - peeled and sliced

1 egg

100g breadcrumbs

2 tsp of finely chopped fresh sage

Salt and pepper to taste

A large knob of butter

 

1. Melt the butter in a large heavy based oven proof pan, add half the sliced onion and cook over a moderate heat until the onions soften.

2. Gradually add all the meats, stir for a few minutes then add enough water to cover the ingredients, leave uncovered and put in the middle shelf of the oven at 190C for 50 minutes.

3. Remove from the oven, drain the liquid (to make the gravy), mince the meats and onion with the remaining onion, egg, breadcrumbs, 1 tsp of sage and salt and pepper, mix well and form into faggot sized balls.

4. Place the faggots into a greased baking tray and add enough of the reserved liquid to just cover the base of the tray. Cook for about 40 minutes at 200C on the middle shelf.

5. In the meantime use the rest of the reserved liquid to make some gravy.

6. Five minutes before the faggots are cooked add the gravy to the tray and cook on the stove getting as much of the meat juices into the liquid.

7. Serve whilst piping hot with mashed potatoes and peas pudding, garnish with the remaining sage.

Sounds offal to me.

 

I do use some terms at work, when I'm communicating with inmates that I would never use at home or when I'm around young people.

For example at work I will very often tell someone or a group to "Stop screwing around."

We can look up the word Screw and Google the means of it. Maybe I can try and defend myself by saying that I'm only talking about it in the context of wood working.

But the truth is I know what I'm saying and more importantly is the person or group knows what I mean.

I had a conversation with a group of African-American inmates, after one of them called the other the "N" word. I asked why it seemed OK for one of them to use it, but if I'd used it they would say I was a raciest? They didn't have a clear answer and seemed a little surprised when I asked them not to use it as it upset me.

I do find it offensive, but I don't think anyone should re-write "Huckleberry Finn" and remove words that might offend.

I wasn't around when Mark Twain wrote the book.

I do know that Twain did at times come very close to the line. I'm unsure if the people of the time were offended?

Times do change and the vocabulary changes with it.

As part of my Queen's Scout Award I worked with handicapped children at the Cheyne Walk Center For Spastic Children. The center had a very long history, over time the word Spastic came into common speech and it is considered an offensive way to refer to the disabled.

As a adult leader in the UK Scouts would use "Spaz" and "Spazmo" when name calling.

A BBC survey in 2003, found that "spastic" was the second most offensive term in the UK relating to disability (retard was deemed most offensive).

Eamonn

 

 

 

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Offal alright, Offal good

 

at least as good as haggis

 

 

In the book Huckleberry Finn, the slave Jim was the only trustworthy, loyal,helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty,brave, clean and reverent charactor that Huck comes across. And I think that was the point(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[Eagle92]

If memory serves, I remember reading about the controversy that Huckleberry Finn caused when it was first published b/c it DID put blacks in a positive light.

[Gunny2862]

Swimming against the popular stream, Words have meaning - it's why we have a dictionary.

 

If popular culture has added a new meaning to a word or influenced it in the vernacular to mean something different than it originally meant, well, that's why context is such an important part of the American variant of the English language.

 

I use the words I want to use, they serve me, not I them. If others have a PC agenda, fine. I, for one, am not playing.

However, I do hope that any who misunderstand me or in those occasions when I will misspeak will grant me the latitude to re-phrase or correct.

 

And from the quote that started it all, from the context, if they are too tired to gather sticks for the campfire they were pretty tired.(EDIT FOLLOWS) See, there I went assuming and posting before I read - but it is still evident that they were tired from the days activities and not pursuing homosexual practices and being referred to in relation to those.(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

[CA_Scouter]

Wow... how old ARE you Eagle92??

 

;-)

 

 

[SeattlePioneer]

Well shortridge,

 

 

You are a good example of the language cop of today, who wants to direct the language traffic by his own political and social standards and agendas.

 

Yes, you wish to enforce a red light when your standards and values are violated, however arbitrary. A word may be used in an entirely innocent way, but the liberal language cops will issue a warning or citation for all that.

 

And for the same arbitrary reasons, hate language that really does have an objectively objectionable history and usage will be ignored, because it carries out the political and social agenda of denigrating those the language cops don't like in unfair ways.

 

Of course, these language cops aren't enforcing the law of the land as they patrol patterns of English usage. They are the thought police of the liberal left, enforcing political agendas.

 

And your comments have illustrated how the thought police work in the United States today.

 

And I'll admit to being part of the language cops too in this discussion.(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

[Stosh]

There are always words that get hijacked somewhere along the way.

 

Faggot - metal band that wrapped around a bundle of spears for a Middle Ages army.

Brits (sorry, people of British descent) hijacked the word to identify a "pack" of cigarettes. Instead of being totally wrapped in a pack, they were first sold as a bundle of cigarettes wrapped in a paper band, i.e. faggot. Eventually the cigarette itself was referred to as faggots, or fags for short. Now it's a derogatory term for homosexuals.

 

Sorry for the history lesson, but have a gay old time thinking about it.

 

I can take just about any word in the English language and turn it into something sinister, if I express it correctly.

 

When I was a kid, my younger brother was a real pest. Duh! aren't all younger brothers a pest? I was fishing and he was hanging around being a pill. In my tackle box was a container of fish hooks manufactured by the Pfluger company. I turned to him and told him to get lost because he was a Pfluger. Of course he took it in the spirit in which it was given and ran off to tattle to Mom. Mom showed up and was irate as to this new "bad" word I had learned... She laughed, but told me not to use it anymore. No problem, like I couldn't come up with something just as "bad" the next time?

 

Of course, regardless of the word used, someone's always going to take the most negative reaction possible.

 

Of course these words get reserved for certain positive things as well. Especially when a young man immigrated to America from South Africa, naturalized and every time he fills out a form, marks down African-American and gets into trouble. He's definitely of British/German descent, but he did come from Africa. Duh! I'm a native American, born and bred here. But I can't use the term because I only have 1/20'th Indian descent, not enough to "qualify" to use the term. Being native to America is not qualifications enough.

 

Heck, I grew up using words today that are deemed politically incorrect. We thought nothing of it and no one ever wondered about it until some PC person jumped down our throats. Heck, playing cowboys and Indians just isn't the same as playing cowboys and Native Americans, or maybe it ought to be Law Enforcement Officers and robbers.

 

I'm still scratching my head as to how the corporate title Aunt Jemimah has survived the onslaught of PCism.

 

When all the dust settles, the only word that remains the same and that is: hypocrite, i.e. overly critical, yet guilty for doing the same as to what they object. If PC is supposed to make people feel better about themselves, how come everyone is being hassled for being guilty of being politically incorrect? I have trouble with the math on this one.

 

Your mileage may vary,

 

Stosh

[OldGreyEagle]

Stosh Stosh, Stosh,

 

I can't believe it

 

You said

 

"Law Enforcement Officers and robbers

 

I am shocked and appalled at your use of language, you very well should know its "Law Enforcement Officers and Alleged Perpertrators"

[Stosh]

LOL! I stand corrected!

 

Good eye!

 

Maybe it ought to be Bovine Travel Directors and Native Americans, too.

 

Stosh

[shortridge]

Bovine Travel Directors Of Any Gender, you mean.

[OldGreyEagle]

"non-specific gender" if you will

[CalicoPenn]

On behalf of the the Flabby Alliance of Terra, I object to the use of the word Bovine!