When is the right time?

[Eamonn]

In the District I serve we have a few people who seem to live in their Scout uniforms.

A good many of these are deeply involved in both a Pack and a Troop. Many times they think that they are trying to save one unit or the other and sometimes both.

They think if they walk away either the Pack will fold or if the Pack fails then not having a flow of Cub Scouts crossing over will cause the Troop to fail.

In most cases in the area where I live, when this happens, both the Pack and the Troop are not that healthy too start with and the big problem does seem to be lack of adult leadership and adult support.

Sad to say when I was a member of the District Key 3. I did little to help these units and while of course I was aware that there was a problem, I was happy to allow things to remain as they were for fear of maybe losing a unit or maybe two.

Very often the people who were doing all this work, just didn't seem very happy. I think and of course I might be wrong! That they were spreading themselves too thin and were burnt out, doing what they were doing more out of some sense of obligation than anything else.

The feeling of myself, the other members of the Key 3 and the parents of the youth in the units was very much that as long as someone was willing to carry the load, we all were happy to just let them.

Very often these overworked people framed themselves as some sort of Scouting Martyrs. If I wasn't feeling depressed before I talked with them, I knew I was going to be after I had.

It was little wonder that no one wanted to step in and work with them. They made being a Scouter seem like some kind of a penance and no fun at all.

At our Commissioner Cabinet Meetings we used a color system to identify the health of the units. Green being good, yellow being needs help and red being in need of CPR. Meeting after meeting, month after month these units were in the "Yellow". But the feeling was that as long as So and So was there not only could our attention be on the Red Units, but there was an underlying feeling that any help offered would be rejected and seen as interference.

A good number of these units survived for years, some for many years. But in most cases the program offered just wasn't that great. In part because the adults just were trying to do too much.

There of course is no way of knowing what might happen to the units if these people had called it a day and decided to just work with either the Pack or the Troop and allowed whatever was going to happen, happen.

From a District point of view. The unit would have moved from Yellow to Red and we would have been forced to do something.

That isn't to say that something would have worked and the unit would have been saved or maybe even both units would have failed?

As Scouts we promise to do our best.

I'm not sure if when we take on too much that we are indeed really doing our best?

My feeling is that Scouts and Scouting is something that I'm willing to do if it fits into the other important parts of my life. (Family, work and whatever first.) Then it needs to be something that I enjoy doing. I don't want to do it because I in any way feel it is something that I have to do. I sure as heck don't want to be involved in something that causes me to be miserable.

When is the right time to walk away?

Ea.

[Eagle92]

Sometimes it's hard to step away from something, especially something you are passionate about. I know that was the case with the OA chapter I was adviser so. We did so much to build it up, that A) I was getting burnt out, and B) I didn't want to give it up in case the hard work going into rebuilding it went to waste if the chapter folded after I left.

 

The key was finding a motivated adviser to take over, which took some time. But the one we now have is AWESOME.

 

The other key for me at least was my other half. With a son finally going into Scouting, she reminded me that I need to focus my energy on his program, and not do what I wanted, OA. While I do miss the camaraderie of the OA, as well as going to Powwows and what not, I love getting involved with my son.

 

I think the key to stepping back is the following

 

A) It is interfering with your primary responsibilities, i.e. family and work. and

 

B) It is no longer fun.

[packsaddle]

Eamonn, I think that you are the only person who can answer that question to your satisfaction. I led a 'red' unit only to be ignored by the key 3 and everyone else for that matter. I stuck with it only because I couldn't bring myself to be the one under whose watch the unit died. But personally, when I leave something, I tend to really leave it, if you know what I mean. I never burn bridges behind me but I never look back, either.

This has caused problems in the past. For example, a girl friend breaks up with me. And then gets really angry that I don't call and try to patch things up. IT's a BREAKUP!! What part of that does she not understand?

And coupled with my personal policy: NEVER make threats, and NEVER give warnings...this has occasionally made a few people around me kind of nervous over the years. Which means I suck at politics and am a terrible negotiator, but it works for me.

 

And whatever you decide will work for you too. I am confident of that.

[SeattlePioneer]

Very interesting comments Eamonnand Eagle 92.

 

 

I've been a rescuer of failed units in my district. When I got back into Scouting a few years ago, I asked the DE to refer me to a striggling unit to work with.

 

I understand that's unusual --- most volunteers prefer to work with strong and succesful units.

 

There were things with the first troop I didn't care for (it folded a few month later). I went on to a second strugglinf troop (we have plenty!) and worked for about two years as a AS and CM before that one folded.

 

Iwas also asked to work with as a Unit Commissioner with a Cub Pack that had lost their "Cubmaster Who Does Everything," wasn't meeting and didn't even have a roster of members. I was succesful in helping to rebuild that unit and it just crossed over 15 Weebelos into a Scout Troop.

 

I volunteered in my current Cub Pack that was down to one Webelos Scout as a Tiger Cub Den Leader and then as Cubmaster. We have developed a good core of adult leaders, an excellent Bear Den but I'm still struggling with that one.

 

In addition, the Tiger Cub Roundtable Commissioner left last June with no replacement, and I've been putting on that program since August rather than see it fail. I've explained to the DE that we need to come up with a replacement or I'll be dropping that shortly because I'm out of quality program ideas.

 

 

I appreciate Eamon's comments about the perspective on this phenomena from the lofty platform of the Key 3. Sometimes I've asked for help from the District Chair or District Commissioner and I've never received a reply to those e-mails. I found that curious.

 

Personally I don't regard mtself as a Scouting Martyr. I'm a retiree and my intention was to use Scouting as the framework for my retirement activities.

 

I've had a two clear successes with Cub Packs that are now great successesin the district and a failure or two. The Cub Pack and Cub Roundtable programs are question marks at this point.

 

I know what a quality program is and my aim has been to provide a quality program, then look for interested adults who are attracted by that program to recruit as leaders so I can get out. My aim is NOT to do "Everything," but to do the things necessary to start a quality program and show people how that can be improved over time if they will contribute their support and effort.

 

Just this morning for example, I emailed my Cub Pack leaders suggesrting we could add the Cub Scout Resident Camp to our program for Webelos age Scouts next year, and that we can use the popcorn sale to give those families a way to pay for that activity if we wish. I've asked for their comments and advice. We have an excellent Bear Den program this year that could kick off that effort have they a mind to do so. If they are willing to pick that up, GREAT! If not, it's not something I will be doing.

 

 

We have a great district volunteer who has labored mightily to revive our district OA chapter in the same spirit that Eagle 92 describes. He has had a good deal of success with the Scouts, but hasn't found a replacement for himself. I wish I could help him more, but I'm pretty full up myself. Besides, he needs a NEW leader to take over the program. Any tips on how to do that, Eagle 92?

[SR540Beaver]

E,

 

Walk away or cut back? This is my year to cut back and it feels great. I overextended myself last year and felt it. I was an ASM for new scouts in our unit, a Jambo ASM, A WB staffer, a Campmaster and an OA Chapter Adviser all rolled into one. I did seem to live in my uniform and craved some time to stay home, work in the garden and sit in my recliner. The only thing I gave up last year was Campmaster and boy did I hear about it everytime I ran into the guy who runs the program. My son aged out this past weekend, so while I'm not leaving the troop, I am cutting my involvement back. I turned my role with new scouts over to one of the newer dads. There is no Jambo this year and I wasn't asked to staff WB, so I'm good there. My scouting job this year is Chapter Adviser and that is what I'm sticking to. I'm much happier. I'm actually getting to come home, eat dinner in a relaxed manner and sit on the patio and watch the birds at the feeder while I smoke my pipe. I'm actually considering pulling back the mulch on my raised bed garden and planting some veggies for the first time in a couple of years. We are even planning a family vacation. Last year I used every single day of three weeks of vacation for scouting. I've put the word out that I'm cutting back and I am. I knew how to say no, I just didn't do it very often. I'm exercising that option now and feel really good about it. No one is expendable, someone will eventually take up the slack if we make room. I can easily live with my reduced role. Right now, I'm debating if I resign from Chapter Adviser at the end of this year or if I want to go one more year. I began training my replacement almost from day one on the job. After that, I'll decide if I hang up my uniform, pick and choose what I want to be involved in or just go to annual banquets to see old friends.

[Lisabob]

Good question, Eamonn. It seems like one of those questions that is really hard to answer while you're in the thick of things, but in retrospect, the answer becomes easy to see.

 

In the last couple of years I have cut back, then walked away from scouting, except to serve as driver for my son to get to his troop meetings.

 

I was at a point where a) I wasn't having any fun at all and b) I didn't think I was making a positive difference and c) my dislike of some things that were occurring was so strong that it was probably affecting my son's views of scouting, too. Probably, I should have cut back sooner than I did.

 

Having stepped back and then stepped OUT of being a scouter, I am able to better play just a supporting role to my son. And I know my spouse, who frequently told me how glad he was not to be part of the crazy adult nonsense, appreciates not hearing me talk about it anymore, either! Everybody ends up happier.

 

I'm glad I stepped back, though there are some things I miss. Maybe, down the road, I'll get back in as a leader. I really enjoy working with the kids, esp. the cub-level and 1st year boy scouts. (I've also learned that dealing with 13-15 year olds is not my strong suit.) I also appreciate the camaraderie and can-do spirit of most adults involved in scouting. But it isn't worth the personal stress and frustration (and sometimes, anger) that I was feeling when I was up to my neck in it.

 

 

[qwazse]

If it weren't for scouting I'd probably be doing more church, and just as burned out and abused.

 

But even in this program, I have to constantly say no. I feel like such a heel because I've put off signing up as a Merit Badge Counselor for years. But every time I consider it, I think about how I'm counselling boys and girls to be youth leaders! Yes, I love my hobbies, but not so much that I want to fill out one more piece of paperwork to do them! If a kid wants to learn from me, great. If he/she wants a patch, they will have to make a few calls to the many counselors in our district.

 

Likewise for District Comittee's. I love the organizational charts, they really are pretty. But it's to the point where that one meeting a month might be the hour a Troop, Crew, or VOA officer might need to touch base with me. So unless I see something in it for my youth (and I think I'm pretty generous when factoring in indirect benefits), I'm not making the trade-off.

[AlFansome]

 

Luckily, I have a wife who knows how to say "no" for me! Of course, I haven't told her (yet) that I'll be taking over as SM of my son's troop at the end of the year....must've slipped my mind. :-)

 

Seriously, though, walking away from something you've invested alot of time and effort into is hard. After my son bridged from Cubs to his troop, I've stayed on with his pack as the Pack Trainer in order to make sure that (at least) the new and continuing leaders were trained and also to be there to share my experience and advice, along with helping transition Pinewood Derby and popcorn. It's been very hard to sit back and watch the new Cubmaster do a less than stellar job and to see the schedule for the boys no where near as full as when myself and our previous Committee Chair were leading the pack. Luckily, there are involved parents and it's not too bad...just could be better.

 

However, the COR has told me multiple times that in his 20+ years of experience with the pack, the Pack does well, then not so well, and then the cycle repeats. I'm OK with that....

 

[Eamonn]

" Sometimes I've asked for help from the District Chair or District Commissioner and I've never received a reply to those e-mails."

The District I serve is in comparison to others not that big.

While there are a few units up the mountain, most are huddled together in 3 small towns.

Just about everyone knows where I live. The boats in the back yard might also be a bit of a give away?

At the time I was serving as District Commissioner and later as District Chair. I knew each and every leader in the District.

Some I liked more than others, some didn't like me.

I was very lucky as District Commish in having a staff of 27 commissioners working with and for about 40 units.

I like to think that I knew what was going on and who was who.

Some over worked volunteers would at times come and tell me that they needed help.

Other than telling them ways of going about selecting adults, there really wasn't very much that I could do.

It wasn't like I had a waiting list of adults who were waiting to be asked to step up to the plate.

Much as I hate to say it, some of these people were either so miserable or so stuck in their way of doing things that even if I'd had a waiting list, I would have thought twice before sending in any green volunteer.

Once a unit went into the "Red" I would meet with the COR and or the CO.

But most times things had gone too far and had been going on so long that saving the unit was next to impossible.

While I hope that i would never be so rude as to ignore a letter or an email, I do think that I was guilty of all too often allowing what was being said to me to not sink in, but in my defense as long as there was a warm body willing to do the job, I was willing to let them.

Eamonn.

[Eamonn]

" walking away from something you've invested a lot of time and effort into is hard"

A few years back in this forum I was moaning and groaning about how the District that I'd put so much into wasn't doing well and I wasn't sure what to do.

A forum member sent me a PM saying that I needed to look at things very much like a house builder.

The house builder puts all of his skill and his best effort into building the house.

But when the house is completed and he is done. He hands it over and moves on.

The house builder has no control and no say in what the house owner will do or not do.

The house owner might make all sorts of changes, might not maintain the house or might make wonderful improvements.

Still at the end of the day the builder can only look back and say that he gave it his best and his job is done.

Ea.

[Hawkrod]

What a conundrum! We are going through this right now. My wife was the CC for the Pack but knowing that my youngest would bridge by B&G she tried stepping down and training a replacement. She started about a year out and went through a couple of candidates. Nobody really wanted to step up to do a job that had been done for them for the last 6 years. In the end she had to pack it in and walk away and there were some very bitter and angry people who felt that she abandoned them which is very far from the truth. Fortunately a couple of mentally healthy people were rational and realized if somebody did not pick up teh reigns it would all fall apart. The reality is so many people just assumed she was doing it and it would continue despite being told over and over again and it caused a lot of strife when she actually stepped out. She ended up being blamed because the advancement chair was letting things slide and nobody planned upcoming events etc... and these things occured after she gave her final notice and stepped out. It really was tough and many people were offended that she would abandon them. She is still taking calls from the new CC and helping by explaining how to do stuff but she isn't going to go to any more meetings as she is now the Troop CC (by chance the Troop CC just stepped down and they were actively seeking a new CC!). We have had a time of it and the Pack has dipped but it is just part of the cycle and you have to accept it.

[Eagledad]

The right time for me was when I stopped answering the phone for fear of the caller at other end wanting to discuss scouting business.

 

Barry

[CalicoPenn]

In another thread, someone mentions coming upon a Scouter in tears because he was at a Council event and was missing his son's school play. I'd say that's the right time.

 

One of the best training sessions for non-profit management I ever went to was a session on "Founder's Disease". This hits people who have been on boards and committees for a long time and are hesitant/refuse to leave the organization/board because "things will just go donwhill if I leave". Though named "Founder's Disease" (because many times, it is the founders of the organizations that can't let go and move on), it equally affects people who join organizations later and come to think of themselves as indespensible.

 

I see folks in this forum who I would identify as having "Founder's Disease".

 

Some things to look for:

* belief that the unit will just fall apart if I leave.

* belief that someone new just can't do the job as well as I do it.

* belief that traditions will go away if I leave.

 

If you every hear yourself playing Eeyore (NOT to be confused with Eamonn!) at a committee/PLC meeting and saying either "It will never work" or "That's not how we do it" or "We tried that before, it didn't work so let's not waste our time", then you probably have "Founder's Disease".

 

There's only one cure for "Founder's Disease". That's to sit back or out for a time. Scouting makes it pretty simple for folks to move on (though I consider it opportunities for further growth). Leave the Pack, join the Troop. Leave the Troop, join the Crew or Ship. If you've think you've got it down, leave the Unit, join the District - most districts are sorely in need of folks for the Training committee, Camping/Activities committee, Commissioner staff. Burnt out as Commissioner? Join the training staff. Burnt out training? Become a Commissioner.

 

It's unfortunate to see so much evidence of "Founder's Disease" in Scouting since Scouting is one of the few organizations that provide so many different outlets to help.

[Hawkrod]

Excellent post CalicoPenn, the only caveat I would suggest is sometimes people say "We tried that before, it didn't work so let's not waste our time" because they really tried that before and it didn't work so it would be a waste of time! LOL I am not saying it is always true but that is one I would certainly look into a little deeper before I discounted it completely! I have had a couple of suggestions over the years that have come up and we have tried it (sometimes more than a few times) and it still didn't work. Some things we actually tried again only because people kept suggesting it even though the larger group had already said it had been tried and rather than create a conflict we let them try, we even help hoping it will succeed this time (some ideas are good it is just that implementing and sustaining them takes more than we have). I certainly like to think I am not insane but IIRC Einstein said "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results".

[CalicoPenn]

Hawk - there is some validity to being cautious about trying things over and over but I've seen too often when someone new with a different take on how to accomplish something tries what has already been tried, they are prevented from succeeding by those who say it can't be done (I'm not suggesting maliciousness or out right sabotage here, just the normal resistence to change most of us have at some point on things). I've also seen folks try something that's been tried before and succeed where others weren't able to pull it off - sometimes its just a matter of coming at it from a different angle, or with a fresh set of eyes. Seems to me that history/science is rife with examples of people trying things that have been tried before and succeeding where others did not.

 

When I hear someone wants to try something that's been tried before, I try to enthusiastically support their effort - they may still not succeed, but out of their effort, something else may be achieved.