red feather Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Thanks for the link, informative and interesting. Got a bit of rambling, tired from experiencing the outing in Scouting this weekend. Sematics is a wonderful tool isn't it? Couple of words in the CSE's talk caught my attention. Produced and customer. 50,000 Eagles were produced and the scouts and scouts and scouters were mentioned as customers. I agree with a much that was said but isn't Eagle earned? In the troop that I serve Eagle is not a commodity but a honor and is earned, not bought with just time spent in scouting. Not produced!! Production refers to something that is made not personally earned. Makes the latest Eegle Scout in the troop that you serve just a thing. Not a personal benchmark in life of the young man that earned it. We do not produce Eagles but provide the opportunity for it to be earned. The use of the word customers.....put me off. Not real sure why, but a gut reaction. Believing in a concept that can affect the lives of so many in and out of scouting, volunteering hours of time and valuable personal resources, taking a vested interest in the lives of the youth and adults that are put into our care, and then asking for those who do not have this understanding to devote their time and resources to a program (many parents), to then call them customers... seems to degrade the effort and program. I get it. Scouting is a business, has to be. Somewhere around 7000 professionals, around 1.2 million volunteers and around 4.5 million scouts. (numbers taken from the broadcast) It has to be a business, but to be labeled a customer is a bit of the wet fish scenario. Please pardon the rambling, spent a lot of time counting the seconds between flash and rumble last night. yis red feather PS: Imho, personally the most important word of the Scout Law is not the twelve points but the word.."is". A scout IS. Without is the rest fall apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberSchiff Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Production. Yes, I fear we are heading in that direction, i.e., Cub Scouts who 'go through the program graduate' with the highest award in Cub Scouting. Similarly, Bob Scouts who 'go through the program graduate' with Eagle. The failed public school model. Little earned, little learned but get them through the program with a water-down diploma. My $0.02(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeptic Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 So, then it is even MORE important for those in the trenches to try and assure a quality program, including "real" skills and leadership growth. There is no reason to not take the high level performance as a troop goal, rather than aim at the minimum. Frankly, I sometimes wonder why some on here are still involved, if they are; as they certainly do not seem to be getting any joy or fun out of it based on their bitterness. Hopefully they do not pass that attitude to scouts, if they are still actually involved. JMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I agree that "produce" (in terms of numbers of Eagles) was not the best choice of words. However, I doubt that the CSE meant to suggest that Eagles should be "produced" without them actually earning the rank. It just wasn't the best phrase to use. The key here, as skeptic suggests, is what happens on the local level. It is the local Scouters (unit and district/council) who make sure that any given Scout actually earned the Eagle rank. As for "customer", I don't know, that could actually be a good thing if it means the CSE sees National's role as being to serve the Scouts and Scouters, rather than the other way around. On the other hand, it does imply that National has the "central" role in Scouting, whereas I believe the local level is where Scouting actually "happens." But I think the use of "customer" truly is a matter of semantics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadenP Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 NJ You are right that it is all semantics with Mazzuca, who I think views himself as the new James West or Daniel Beard. Truth is Bob likes the feel of power as CSE and now he wants to shape the BSA into some kind of one size fits all program, ignoring much of what made Boy Scouts the great organization it once was. Listening to him it was mostly a lot of boasting of what he has accomplished, aka National, as CSE with very little sincerity or humilty in his words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 BadenP, my use of the word "semantics" was not meant as a criticism of Mr. Mazzuca. What I meant was that it probably does not matter whether he used the word "customer" or some other word, in terms of his actual meaning. As for who he views himself as and what he wants to do and whether he is sincere, I leave that to you to comment on. Based on what you have said, you know the guy and obviously have a problem with him personally. I don't know him, have never met him (and don't personally know anyone who has), and have not even had the time to watch his speech. Based on what I have read of what he has said in the past, and from my admittedly limited perspective as "just" a troop committee member, I frankly don't see him as any better or worse than any other CSE who has served during "my time." (Well, other than the fact that as far as I know he has never been stopped at an airport with a gun in his luggage, unlike that other CSE from about 10 years ago.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadenP Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 NJ It is not a personal problem I have with Mazzuca as it was watching him put the council where I was a DE and he the SE be put into a severe financial debt crisis, to the point where all the councils assets had to eventually be sold to pay off the debt and the 75 year old council go under because of Mazzuca's cavalier management style. Now he is the head of the BSA and I just cringe to see what kind of damage he will do to the whole organization during his reign as CSE. Take the time and watch the video to see him talking out of both sides of his mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I'd watch it, but I'd have to tell them who I am. Or would they care if I log in as "John Smith"? (Apologies to anyone in the forum who is actually named John Smith.) Can't "they" just put it on YouTube where I can just be the inaccurately-named but anonymous NJCubScouter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romines Posted February 22, 2011 Author Share Posted February 22, 2011 There is no email address verification, so you may use any email address you like, so long as it follows the user@domain.gTLD convention (ie. johnsmith@domain.com). YouTube is great for shorter videos that you want opened up to search results. I'm not certain, but I believe the council involved wanted this video brought to the attention (primarily) of those in the scouting community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudu Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 For me the big news was that our CSE replaced his 2010 theme, "Hispanics Hate Camping," with a new one: "Prepared. For Life." Wood Badge enthusiasts will be pleased to hear that Mr. Mazzuca dug up Leadership Development's "Runaway Horse" justification for attacking the Scoutcraft skills once taught at Wood Badge (back when boys liked Scouting) and specified in our Congressional Charter as one of the Three Purposes of Scouting. Runaway Horse is it? So who says that BSA millionaires don't read the Scouter.Com Forums? (Hi Bob!) Bottom Line? You have to admire the ability of "Second Century Scouting" advocates to stay on message, no matter what (If life hands you lemons, discuss Diet Coke). Really, check this one out: As we move into this second century we have the opportunity to insure that America's young people are indeed, now get these words because starting today--because I'm announcing it in Philadelphia--our new theme going forward for at least the next five or six years will be Prepared--period--For Life. When you think about it from a marketing and public relations point of view you have all kinds of potential. But we have the opportunity to insure that America's young people are indeed Prepared. For Life... Did you know that there was a time when to be a First Class Scout--you guys didn't know this I bet--did you guys have to learn how to catch a runaway horse to be a First Class Scout? When was the last time you saw a runaway horse? [audience response: "Tuesday"] Tuesday? Whoa! OK. Oh, that's right! This is Amish country, isn't it? So what do we mean by being Prepared For Life: Obviously we don't have to learn how to catch a runaway horse anymore. That's not an important skill! Yours at Tuesday, Kudu http://kudu.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortridge Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 What a dope. He clearly didn't read the actual 1911 requirement in context: Advanced first aid: Know the methods for panic prevention; what to do in case of fire and ice, electric and gas accidents; how to help in case of runaway horse, mad dog, or snake bite; treatment for dislocations, unconsciousness, poisoning, fainting, apoplexy, sunstroke, heat exhaustion, and freezing; know treatment for sunburn, ivy poisoning, bites and stings, nosebleed, earache, toothache, inflammation or grit in eye, cramp or stomach ache and chills; demonstrate artificial respiration. It's the equivalent of today's first aid requirements for T-2-1. If anything, that shows how universal our Scouting skills are - they're basically the same, with only very minor tweaks, over a 100-year timespan. Sounds like I'm going to have to watch this video with a barf bag at hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I'm kind of curious as to what first aid treatment was recommended for unconsciousness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortridge Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 NJCubScouter: Unconsciousness, of course, means lack of consciousness, or, in other words; one who is unconscious knows nothing of his surroundings or of what is happening. A person may, however, be partially, as well as wholly, unconscious. Unconsciousness may be due to so many causes that, in order to give the best treatment, the scout should first know the cause. Always try to find this out if you can. If you cannot do this, however, you should at least determine whether unconsciousness is due to poison, to bleeding, to sunstroke, or to freezing; for each of these demand immediate, special treatment. If it is not due to one of these causes, and the patient is pale and weak, have him placed with his head low, and warm and stimulate him in every possible way. If the face is red and the pulse is bounding and strong, that patient should have his head raised on a folded coat. No stimulants should be given him and cold water should be sprinkled on his face and chest. The common causes of unconsciousness are shock, electric shock, fainting, apoplexy and injury to the brain, sunstroke and heat exhaustion, freezing, suffocation, and poisoning. The first two have already been described and the treatment of any form of suffocation in artificial respiration. - from the 1911 Handbook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 It wasn't stopping the runaway horse that confused me, it was having a scout fast enough to catch the runaway horse that has me baffled Then there is the way to deal with a "mad" dog. Either kick it in the jaw or "find a stick" and kill it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudu Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 OldGreyEagle writes: It wasn't stopping the runaway horse that confused me, it was having a scout fast enough to catch the runaway horse that has me baffled. What red-blooded American boy would not want to know "how to help in case of a runaway horse"? To find out how well the CSE's anti-Scoutcraft "Be Prepared. For Life" message resonates with Boy Scouts, simply put it to a vote at your next Troop meeting: "You have a choice tonight. Would you rather learn how to stop a runaway horse, or learn how to use the EDGE method to teach the square knot?" My guess is that most of your Boy Scouts would prefer "old-fashioned" 1911 adventure to our 2011 double-chin program. When I took Wood Badge, the SPL also used the runaway horse requirement to sneer at Scoutcraft. There seems to be a very high correlation between adults who love office "leadership" theory and the conviction that "21st century boys" hate Scoutcraft as much as they do. What a great Wood Badge Ticket research project, huh? For some reason the runaway horse requirement always reminded me of the 1990s report of a couple of Eagle Scouts who tackled a gunman in a school cafeteria. OldGreyEagle writes: Then there is the way to deal with a "mad" dog. Either kick it in the jaw or "find a stick" and kill it? Again, what red-blooded American boy would not want to know how to kill a rabid dog? The current handbook still presents killing as an option ("Do not kill the animal unless necessary"). The difference is that we no longer offer practical suggestions on how to do it. I used to use my "Scoutmaster Minute" time to read a short passage from one of those "quicksand/alligators/volcanoes" survival books. Back when Scouting was popular with boys, it was based on their natural desire to know what to do in any situation. Boys still find that naturally satisfying, like when their bat connects perfectly with a ball. Yours at 300 feet, Kudu Scuba Diving Merit Badge: http://inquiry.net/scuba_diving_merit_badge/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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