When is too much leadership too much?

[ScoutNut]

So you got no advance notice of this problem, or the meeting, from your Committee Chair at all?

 

The Committee Chair has still not communicated to you that there was a problem, a meeting, or anything related to the issue?

 

The only time you heard about this was when the DE called you last night?

 

The DE would not talk to you on the phone about the particulars of the meeting?

 

Did the DE request that you not talk to anyone before your meeting with him?

 

Curiouser, and curiouser.

 

[Stosh]

"So you got no advance notice of this problem, or the meeting, from your Committee Chair at all?"

 

The CC said she was going to have a parent meeting instead of a committee meeting this month.

 

"The Committee Chair has still not communicated to you that there was a problem, a meeting, or anything related to the issue?"

 

Only that there was going to be a meeting, nothing before or after.

 

"The only time you heard about this was when the DE called you last night?"

 

Yep

 

"The DE would not talk to you on the phone about the particulars of the meeting?"

 

Nope, just wanted me to know in case someone might say something at roundtable about it. No one did.

 

"Did the DE request that you not talk to anyone before your meeting with him?"

 

No he did not.

 

"Curiouser, and curiouser."

 

Yep

 

Stosh

(This message has been edited by jblake47)

[John-in-KC]

The Committee Chair and the Scoutmaster absolutely, postively, must share a common vision and goals for the Big T Troop. There may be division of labor (you work the adults, I work the youth), but common vision and goals must be so.

 

The best CC's and SM's I've seen visit each others homes, talk things over a beer or cuppa, and figure out the direction they want the youth to go. We let the youth pick the particular trail, but we have the idea of the destination, including the sinkholes and bogs on each trail they might take.

 

I recall reading a comment about you saying that sometimes you don't worry about what the Committee is doing, you have a vision and you're running with it. That implies divergence of vision and goals. Is there a point of friction between you and the CC about where the Troop is going?

 

Gung ho, in the Chinese, means "Work Together-Work in Harmony." It describes and prescribes how adults serving youth have to be.

 

If you look at the program materials of Scouting, the technical lines are the SM reports to the Committee Chair. I look at it more as a peer relationship, with both the SM and CC accountable to the COR for results.

 

I'd look closely at what Barry and Beavah said. I'd look, hard, at your working relationship with your CC.

 

Oh! What does your IH and COR say?

[Stosh]

My CC and I have had the same goal for the boys. Not a problem. Without being privy to the conversation in the meeting other than what the DE said briefly over the phone, I don't know if the CC has changed positions or not.

 

I knew the parents and committee met, I received no feedback from the CC so I just assumed it was a general informational meeting. The DE got me thinking that may not be the case.

 

A UC was also present with the DE. I don't know if the gentleman is our UC or not. He's new to the district, met him at UC training a month ago. DE has been around for a year, hired out of college.

 

COR is name only person. IH is 200% behind what I'm doing with the boys.

 

Should be interesting next few weeks.

 

I'll know more next Tuesday.

 

Stosh

[John-in-KC]

Feedback is a gift. Bad news does not improve with age.

 

Don't wait, invite her to the house for a cup.

[JMHawkins]

knew the parents and committee met, I received no feedback from the CC so I just assumed it was a general informational meeting. The DE got me thinking that may not be the case... DE has been around for a year, hired out of college.

 

Hopefully this turns out to be just an inexperienced DE overreacting a bit then. But it is a great reminder to get the parents on board with the program. Also a great reminder about how gaps in communication can generate rumors. I've noticed it's not uncommon to go days or even weeks without seeing some of the other adults in the unit. That's a long time for them to stew and worry about something if they hear half a message or get a garbled report from a third party.

[Alabama Scouter]

It was stated that the complaints all came from 6th grade parents. On thinking about this, is

 

sounds like the new adults have had a hard time making the transition from Cub/Webelos to Boy

 

Scouts. The two programs are vastly different (as you know) on parental involvement.

 

 

 

It may be too late in this instance, but when new scouts bridge up, that's the time to train

 

the parents on the Aims and Methods of scouting, and what their boys will be doing, and how the

 

parents can help in the background, or uniform up and help the CC and SM run a quality boy lead

 

patrol based program.

[qwazse]

I love those "interesting" calls from the DE about problems parents are having with your unit!

 

The main "too much leadership" symptom that you have to worry about is when crossovers are afraid to stick with the troop because they are intimidated by how much responsibility your boys have. Listen to your first-years. If they are excited about the program and feel like the older boys are being brotherly to them, you're probably okay.

 

Here's what I do with the venturing crew: If there is a way that a parent would like to help, I have him or her present what they have to offer to the crew president or VP-program. If the officers approve that person to serve as a consultant for an activity, and they appoint a youth activity chair to partner with them, it moves forward. If it's just a one-parent show, the activity gets tabled. I have very earnest parents whom I've coached to not act unless they get a call from a youth.

 

Troops are a little different. Parents come in with a lot more expectations. Sometimes they aren't even sure if their concerns are about their son's safety, their son's time for other activities, your boy's maturity, the advancement program, or even their own sense of feeling welcome. It all gets bundled up and put under a category that seems to fit, and sent to a UC or DE who has to translate it and he is obliged to get back to you even if he doesn't think it's all that serious.

 

So, your CC has to try to listen to them, and try to have them come on an event at sit with you as you watch the boys in action.

[Lisabob]

Call your CC. Why wait until Tuesday?

[Stosh]

Didn't wait.... Update

 

CC and I had coffee

 

A few of the boys complained to their parents that they weren't having any fun in scouts because they had to plan trips, menus, calendars, actually do leadership. They were threatening to quit.

 

Parents complained to CC: who held a meeting 2 weeks ago. Called in DE (less than one year on the job, just graduated from college) and he brought the UC (just trained last month) and the CC caved, the committee caved, the DE caved and the UC caved.

 

I'm no longer the SM. It took the CC two weeks to get around to telling me even though she was told not to by the DE. With the DE going to such great lengths to keep it a secret, I know for a fact that most of the boys in the troop are unaware of the decision.

 

If the boys won't lead, eventually the adults will take over..... and so they did. Only one ASM was in attendance, he took over, he has 3 boys in the troop.

 

Well played I must say.

 

Stosh

[John-in-KC]

This is a sad object lesson in communication.

 

I will say it until I am blue in the face: The SM and the CC must have common vision and goals, must be talking regularly, and must communicate the vision and goals to the parents.

 

My perception is the parents did not know the meat of the program, and thus were unwilling to invest in it. In fact, they withdrew their investment in the program. The CC and the SM have to communicate with the parents. Period. Not-negotiable. The parents have to understand the what and the why of the program their kids are going through. They have to buy into and support what the vision and goals of the Troop are.

 

As for the DE, Stosh, I think a long talk with your IH (since you said the COR is a zero) and the SE is in order. You've been treated badly, and that is wrong. Any removal should thank the SM for his past volunteer service.

[clemlaw]

I'm sorry to hear it!

 

>>>weren't having any fun in scouts because they had to plan trips, menus, calendars, actually do leadership

[Eagle92]

My patrol had fun doing the shopping, but we were also looking at the girls too

 

Sorry to hear about your removal, maybe a nearby unit is in need of an awesome leader?

[sailingpj]

Sorry that happened to you. If you ever find yourself out here in California we would be more than happy to teach you about Sea Scouts.

[Thomas54]

 

 

How horrible!

 

Getting sacked for that? Not getting a chance to defend the policies and merits of the program you are running.

 

Although you don't seem the angry type, I would be hard pressed to cooperate much beyond the minimal in the transition.