One Meeting Scout

[Engineer61]

This is the second time I've seen this in our troop.

 

A new Scout show up...full uniform...nice looking and nice acting kid parents sitting next to me...

 

Happens to be CoH night...

 

Color guard, Pledge of Allegiance ...

 

Prayer ... "Dear Lord...." they leave immediately after "Amen".

 

Is there some communication missing here somewhere?

 

Kind of an expensive way to find out your son cannot participate.

 

 

[ScoutNut]

>>"Is there some communication missing here somewhere? "

[The Blancmange]

On the cover of the application that he filled out, in fairly prominent terms, is the Scout Oath ". . . my duty to God and my country . . . "

 

In the text on the inside, the Declaration of Religious Principles is excerpted.

 

I agree though, someone should talk to him and find out the nature of their objection - to a particular prayer, or to religion in general, or some other issue?

[Beavah]

Maybe it was because of that odd fellow they were sittin' next to .

 

Can't say I've seen it that often. Pretty much scout openings resemble da openings of most state legislatures. A flag, a pledge, and a prayer. Ordinary expressions of citizenship. Yeh have to sorta go out of your way to object to such things.

 

B

 

[JMHawkins]

"Can not" participate, or "don't want him to" participate?

 

I'm not much of a prayer-sayer myself. My religious principles and notions of reverence don't require public prayer, and in my own spiritual life I don't do that. But I'm not allergic to people and faiths who do, and I have no problem sitting reverently through a respectful prayer or two. Further, I have no problem with my son sitting through respectful prayers and being exposed to other people's faiths. Now, if those "other people" wanted to start selling him on the wonderful advantages of their faith, I might take exception, but I'm assuming that isn't what happened here (edit - ah, I see Engineer said he saw this twice, missed that part on my first reading).

 

Yeah, this day and age there are those parents who are reflexively uncomfortable with any overt religious displays. The most uncomfortable are actually intollerant of religion, and they probably "can't" participate, because if nothing else, we in Scouting need to show respect for other people's religions and militant members of any faith - including athiesm - can't sign up for that. But there are a whole bunch more who are just uncomfortable. Maybe watchful is a better word. The unfortunate truth is that there are religious groups out there who engage in stealth proselytizing of kids through what appear to be secular or non-denominational youth groups. Very early in their introduction to the Troop,someone should try to head off any fears of that by letting the parents know what the Troop's approach to interfaith/non-denominational issues will be. Let them know what to expect so they don't freak out at the first 'amen'.(This message has been edited by JMHawkins)

[Engineer61]

Well, since no one really got the opportunity to speak with them...there is no way of knowing for sure.

 

My guess is that they were Buddhist. That has happened two or three times in this troop.

 

 

[ScoutNut]

Do you know if the charter organization is a religious organization?

[Twocubdad]

Let's assume this was a fairly generic prayer of thanks, asking for the Lord's blessing on the meeting and asking to see everyone home safely.

 

Then I'd say the parents were remarkably remiss in their due deligence prior to joining. If their faith causes them to take offense at the simple sort or prayers which typically open meetings, the burden was on them to find out.

 

At least they had the decency to leave early instead of snarking around for two years causing problems.

[JMHawkins]

TwoCub,

 

Yes, the parents were remiss and unless there's a subtext that Engineer didn't know about, awfully thin-skinned too. My only point is, that might not be entirely uncommon these days. We can write 'em off, and say better to focus our energy on families who will give us the benefit of the doubt. Or we can try to proactively explain the situation. I imagine the best use of an individual leader's time will depend on the community they live in. Where I'm at, I think making the proactive effort is well worth it. It's worth realizing that an aspect of modern life is that an increasing number of people have no significant experience with "churchin'" and have reached an advanced enough age to have a son in Boy Scouts without ever belonging to an organization that routinely used even generic, non-denominational prayers. They've maybe even been exposed to propaganda that characterizes religious people in a negative light, and they don't personally know anyone who is overtly religious to counterbalance the image.

 

[moosetracker]

Weird it was at the prayer.. So what I have to say may have no bearing on it if it was the prayer..

 

I remember as a teen being at my church for some other reason when a BS troop was having either their COH or an ECOH.. I stood and watched, my reaction to what BS was in general was "A very boring bunch of geeks.."

 

Just saying if they never saw a troop meeting at all, a COH is not the first thing they want to see..

[Lisabob]

Supposing the boy comes from a non-Christian faith, I think it is reasonable for a parent to say "nope, not for us" to a group that is in the midst of very public, very Christian, prayer.

 

If you are, say, a born-again Christian, how would it feel to go to an organization where they started/ended every meeting with a prayer to someone else's deity? It might rub you the wrong way.

 

And before people jump all over me (or this family), let's keep in mind that the general public doesn't view the BSA as a religious org - they view the BSA as a youth program (rightly so, in my view, but that's an issue for the I&P forum). And many cub packs are silent on religious matters, except for delegating to parents that the kids should complete the religious requirements for rank at home. So it is completely possible for a boy & parents to make it through Webelos (and so, to own the uniform, etc already, Eng!) without running into the pro-Christian flavor that is present in some units.

 

Also, most parents aren't very aware of the CO, even if it is a church. Unless the troop is actually meeting in a church? How would they know?

[The Blancmange]

 

Well, since no one really got the opportunity to speak with them...there is no way of knowing for sure.

No one has their phone number? No one sees the Scout in school?

[SeattlePioneer]

Here is an e-mail I received after talking to a parent about Cub Scouts:

 

 

Hi Will,

 

Thank you for the informative detail. I am glad that we spoke.

 

I briefly read the information you emailed and it reminded me some the questions I had but forgot to ask:

 

The scout is not based or followed on any religious belief? Its goal is not to educate children per particular religion?

 

What is the demographic of the scout? I want to expose my son to a diverse and multicultural environment and teach him to appreciate it.

 

 

 

 

 

And my reply:

 

 

Scouting encourages each Scout to do their "Duty to God."

 

1. We encourage boys to follow the religious practices and values of their families

 

2. We encourage boys to respect the religious values and traditions of other people.

 

 

As an example of that:

 

 

February 6th is "Scout Sunday." Once per year we encourage boys and families to attend their place of worship and to ask to have Scouting recognized during the service.

 

Pack 240 will have a Scout Sunday recognition at St Bernadette Catholic Church that day. Cub Scout families are invited to attend that service if they wish. Attendance is voluntary.

 

Pack 240 families are welcome to have a Scout Sunday recognition at their own place of worship if they wish.

 

Participation in a Scout Sunday service is not required.

 

 

At present we have about ten boys in Pack 240. All of them are white. We would be glad to have your family join the pack and help us become a more ethnically diverse Cub Scout Pack. And we are interested in recruiting more boys from varying ethnic groups.

 

 

 

 

 

This family hasn't turned out to the meeting they were invited to last night nor responded to my phone calls inviting them.

 

 

 

Perhaps we don't get the one meeting sometimes.

[BadenP]

SP

 

Having once led a unit sponsored by a Catholic church and knowing what the pastor expected, mainly Catholic prayers and a Catholic bent on a scout is reverent, I can understand what those parents were saying to you, they were looking for a more ecumenical or an all inclusive approach to the DRP. They probably will feel more at home with a troop sponsored by say a service club where the religious aspect is more minimalistic in its application.

[Kahuna]

We have the Scout Oath and the DRP on the application, so everyone knows what the religious obligation is. However, some may not be expecting a Christian prayer at the opening of a court of honor or a troop meeting. Unless the sponsor expects it, it's probably better to skip the prayer and hold a moment of silence or something else. Don't get me wrong: you certainly can do it if you wish, but . . .

 

As a Buddhist, I've been to many public meeting places where Christian prayers are said and do not take offense, but unless it's a worship service, I sort of wonder why they are doing it.

 

Just two cents worth from a non-Christian.