Venture Crews at Klondike Derbies

[Fox 76]

Our district held the Klondike this past Saturday. Thirty Seven sleds entered, and all but one belonged to Boy Scout Patrols.

 

A single Venture Crew was allowed to enter the Klondike and compete. Personally, I have some problems with this. As a seperate "more advanced" program, I think it would have been more appropriate for this particular crew to run a station for the younger Scouts, as our own Crew affiliate did, rather than compete against them.

 

I see a general pattern in our district where Venture Crews are allowed to fully participate in all district and council wide events, which are usually competitive, as just another Scouting unit. Most of the Crews is our district don't actually participate in these events, but the same couple of crews show up most of the time. There was just one at this Klondike, and it is mostly girls. I have seen Venture Crews referred to as a great training resource in several threads, but I have never seen this concept in action. Late high school aged teenagers can't be really be compared with twelve year olds in a competition, can they?

 

Conversely, our District has permitted a number of Venturing-only events, organized by Venture advisors, that exclude Scouts to take place on Council property, although at one recent "fellowship weekend," a last minute invitation was extended to Scouts who were Venture-eligible (probably due to a complaint, but not mine). To my knowledge, no Scouts took part.

 

I am very interested to see how widespread this "good for these but not for them" method of Scouting is and how other districts address it, if at all. With the logic of the current policy, Boy Scouts should participate in the Cub Scout Eskimo Run as contestants. I'll admit that I'm not a big fan of Venturing, but this just doesn't seem right to me. I want to give it some careful thought because I believe it needs to be questioned.

[The Blancmange]

Let me guess, they won?

 

How did the Scouts feel about the situation? Did everyone have fun?

 

I guess I don't see it as a problem. Unless you're talking about a crew that is all college aged and used to advanced high adventure like climbing, it really isn't much different from an age-based patrol of older scouts.

[SeattlePioneer]

Those Scout Troops need to sharpen up their skills and fitness.

[Fox 76]

Actually, no. They didn't "win." In fact, their behavior and skills were far from exemplary. They some lost points for their colorful language skills.

 

I guess my original post might sound like sour grapes to some people. My point is that Klondikes are generally Boy Scout events, and if Venturing Crews can particpate, then it should be reciprocal if a Venturing activity is not age-restrictive per BSA Safe Scouting guidelines.

[BadenP]

Sounds like sour grapes to me Fox 76. When I was a DE we had the Explorers (pre venturing days) at our Klondikes, they were search and rescue, law enforcement, fire rescue,and high adventure posts. Mostly they were there to show off their specialties and help officiate the events, but some participated in a few events and no one seemed to mind when a couple of them took first. Fox you need to stop looking at these situations as Us versus Them, scouts are there for the fun and as long as the event is fun it doesn't really matter who wins does it?

[boomerscout]

this particular venture crew was mostly all female? Then why not, since they never got to do any Boy Scout activities?

You could propose a separate division of competition with separate awards

[Fox 76]

Again, would it not have been more appropriate all around to let Venturers "teach" (as in running a station) than compete? Isn't demonstrating a skill to a group one of the tenets of the Venture program?

[moosetracker]

It probably does not hurt. If a Venturing crew see this as a fun activity, they are probably not all that much more high Adventure then a troop.

 

But I do see what you are saying.. The boy Scout camporee's & Klondikes are letting in the cub scouts as a recruitment effort.. And the Ventureing as a ("Ventureing want to do it too").. Venturing crews are not invitings boy scouts to theirs as a recruitment effort..

 

But, then many troops would probably not publicise the invite if they did. They still feel very threatened by Venturing crews since they don't start their age group after the boy scout age, but during it.. So they may be happy to direct a scout they are loosing anyway to a crew, but not a scout that is enjoying their program to a crew.. It is like directing your scouts to try out for football, or the neighboring Karate studio.. They might do both activities, or they may pick only one, so why throw confusion into the mix where you might end up the loser.

 

The crews may be not doing the invite in order not to create waves.. If that is the case they are being respectful of the troops fears wheather justified or not, and doing what they can in order to keep the peace..

 

In the meantime the Boy Scout events are the melting pot for all the different Unit types. For better or worse.

[Oak Tree]

I think that *as a general rule* Venture Crews would not normally be appropriate - just because of the age range. However, if the crew was all under 18, what is the difference between them and an older Scout patrol (a Venture patrol, let's say, just to confuse things.)

 

Adults often want the older youth to teach things. However, older youth don't join programs just so they can teach. They want to have fun too. If there was some version of a klondike derby that was set up just for Venturers, that would be more appropriate. But there usually isn't the critical mass to create such an event.

[ScoutNut]

>>"Late high school aged teenagers can't be really be compared with twelve year olds in a competition, can they?"

[Fox 76]

There is a huge difference. To me, at least. But I'll throw in the towel here.

[ScoutNut]

>>"With the logic of the current policy, Boy Scouts should participate in the Cub Scout Eskimo Run as contestants."

[ScoutNut]

>>"There is a huge difference. To me, at least."

[Fox 76]

The crew is not all girls, it is mostly girls. In this case, I could see the difference between a 17 year old Scout and a 17 year old Venturer pretty easily. In any case, I realize my question is inviting considerable derision, and it looks like a hit a nerve or two.

 

Never mind.

[BadenP]

Fox76

 

Did you ever stop to think that maybe the boys let the girls win on purpose?

As another poster stated the purpose of a Klondike is to have fun, if your boys had fun that is all that matters. Getting ribbons and awards really seems much more important for the leaders than it is for the kids. I'll tell you what many of the girls in my crew can really kick the boys butts in some outdoor events and no one ever seems to get upset or mind at all.