Chartered organization requesting fees

[shortridge]

We can't remove ourselves, as if we back out, we lose our number and veteran status...

 

Is this really a huge concern? Keeping the same number and a little veteran strip patch is worth all this headache?

 

The CO clearly does not understand its role. As others have stated, the DE needs to sit down and have a come-to-Jesus meeting with the CO and the pack leadership. That's his/her job. If it's not happening, leave a detailed phone message with the SE or field director about your attempts to contact your DE and the lack of response.

[jhankins]

The CO is providing the meeting place, but out of the funds that the CO owns (the pack account), they want $600 a year to provide the meeting place. Seems reasonable enough. Ask the Pastor how they're going to help as the CO to raise the money.

 

If you feel that the relationship between the CO and the unit isn't worth the time and effort, then have your DE help you find a new CO, they are out there. But follow the meeting place inspection forms, and rules to see if it's a good fit. Make sure the new CO understands their role, too.

 

The church can then relinquish their rights to the number, equipment, and money -- if they choose. If not, all the money gear and the number go back to the council.

[bokris]

The opinions I have read on this subject are as varied as the ones in our executive team meeting. I would have never realized the emotion behind this subject, and I value everyone's feedback. We have, indeed reached out to the CO on several occasions in many various forms; maintaining the prayer garden, helping with their pantry by means of donating all of the food for scouting contributions (over 500 canned goods per year), cleaning the area and bathrooms after each use, and attempting to maintain responsible behavior as a scout should in behalf of the church and our pack.

 

The CO has offered us use of the classrooms, stating that they would clean out their storage from the classrooms (as their youth program has disappeared), but has not honored this commitment. We are also told that the church would leave the heat on 60, and the ac on 72 for our use, however the heat and air is off when we arrive, and we've had meetings in fall/spring in which the room read 88 degrees, and winter temps as low as 40 degrees.

 

We do not have anyone who are members in the church, however we do participate in scout Sunday, support their pumpkin patch fundraiser,Christmas Tree fundraiser, and other ministries as we are allowed. I believe in fruitful relationships, and at times, feel there is not reciprocation in the process. I place expectations on the pack and onto my family to do for others without expecting others to return the offer. This situation has been tricky, as I've not had experience from which to draw.

 

I try not to be a complainer, as I've grown up not expecting help from others, but appreciating help when it is offered, and I've worked with my children using this concept. I also believe in straight forward, honest communication as opposed to passivity in interactions. It' difficult to know how to approach situations at times, and I've had no strong mentors in scouts as I've had in other areas of my life. This is why I appreciate this forum. It offers multiple opinions and insights, which may vary, but that's ok. There is a universal collected wisdom within this site and I'm good at filtering information, so I gain much from the virtual conversation.

 

I want to thank everyone who has offered insight of all types thus far, as whether the insight is agreed with or not, providing feedback offers care and concern, which helps sustain and strengthen my faith in the scouting program. The children not only benefit from this program, but I benefit as well, and have found solace when I begin to be disheartened at times. Again; thank you all!(This message has been edited by bokris)

[Abel Magwitch]

I would like to point out that on another thread, there was discussion concerning the council making a profit from training.

 

I would like to add this - (at least in my council) training is organized by volunteer training chairs and their volunteer committees (both district and council. The trainers are volunteers. The facilities used are usually churches (with no charge to the council). And there is always a fee so the council can make a profit.

 

What really bothers me is that during FOS time, on the flyer called the true cost of scouting (a council flyer) it mentions that FOS monies provide training yet quite frankly, training is put on by volunteers and churches with no real cost to the council yet the council will solicit their FOS making it appear that there is some high cost to training.

 

Perhaps it is different in other councils. But in my council, they are soliciting FOS by listing many so called "costs" that really don't exist.

 

I see no problem with a sponsoring institution charging a utilities fee. As a church member myself, the congregation understands that the church building exists based on the willingness of its members to pay for things like utility costs. A Scout unit is supposedly owned by the sponsoring institution. And IMHO, they are obligated to support the sponsoring institution if that Sponsoring Institution finds itself having fiscal troubles especially having to pay utility bills.

[Lisabob]

bokris - why are there no families in your pack who are church members? I don't mean that in a condemnatory way, but more as a curiosity. You say the church youth program folded, so it seems like there should be some room for scout recruiting? Even if there aren't boys of the right age, what about asking a few friendly church members (hand pick these with care) to serve on the pack committee, etc. Having some church members active in the pack could help you make a stronger personal connection to the church.

 

Good luck to you and the pack. I hope you will post an occasional update here.

 

(PS - jhankins - my understanding is that when a unit changes COs and the old CO chooses not to relinquish the gear and contents of a bank account, then the unit's equipment and any cash would go back to the CO, not to council. Some CO's might voluntarily turn over some/all of the equipment to council, but they aren't obligated to do that, either.)

 

[clemlaw]

>>>>>We are also told that the church would leave the heat on 60, and the ac on 72 for our use, however the heat and air is off when we arrive, and we've had meetings in fall/spring in which the room read 88 degrees, and winter temps as low as 40 degrees.

[moosetracker]

That could be.. I just went throught something similar. I was organizing a 2 day training at a council camp. Originally I was told free by the camp director.. But when booking I got a price of $30 per cabin and they were unsure about a building I wanted for training..

 

So the camp director had it out with the council and they came to an understanding. The price is what is charged for off season for the propane heat, and electricity..

 

Since I chose late May the propane would not be turned on for us, so our price just went down to free again..

 

The explanation of heat price makes it more acceptable then simply rental for profit when we are working on the councils behalf to get their volunteers trained..

 

Not charging us if we are not going to use the heat, rather then blindly charging us for the cost, also seems fair on their part.

[Jeffrey H]

I think this issue should cause us to pause and understand that church CO's do not operate in a vacuum and sometimes (and often) need our cooperation to help keep costs to a minimum.

 

Our church CO is not struggling financially, but they watch their utility costs like most of us do anyway. Our Instituional Head or COR will politely remind our Troop to make sure we shut off AC or Heat to our Troop Meeting Hut when we are finished. A big part of our relationship with the CO is to be good Stewards of the assests that are entrusted to us.

 

$50 a month is not a sacrifice to help your church CO. On the flip side, your Pack could volunteer time to the CO that could save them money. A boy scout troop in our area mows the grass and maintains the grounds at their church CO in return for the use of CO's building, utilities, etc.

 

As Scouts, we are called to be reverent and have a "duty to God" and that can be expressed as supporting your church CO as a house of worship to God. If you are not a member of the church CO, then I would consider making a personal offering to the church as an expression of your appreciation of their long support of your Pack.

 

My thoughts.

 

[Nike]

Lisa,

 

here are some churches which have rather elderly congregations due to thier worship style, location, clergy not reaching out to younger families, etc. We briefly belonged to one such congregation in CA, but the priest was more concerned with arcane bits of Church politics and getting the elderly congregants to will substantial amounts of thier estates to the Church foundation.

 

 

[jhankins]

If the money and equipment are from a folded unit (ie the CO says no more scouting), the CO doesn't get to keep the assets, it goes back to the council per the charter agreement. Thems the breaks. If you aren't going to use it for scouting's purposes, you don't get to keep it.

 

I've only seen my local council enforce this rule once, and it wasn't pretty.

 

[John-in-KC]

jhankins,

 

All the unit has to say is we will start a Scout unit again at some point in the future. Voila! The stuff is theirs. It's supposed to be in trust for future Scouting, but it's theirs.

 

Of course, as the Hizzoner the Judge has told us, your States property laws govern the terms of the franchise charter agreement.

[BadenP]

 

I'm no lawyer John but a statement that you may or even will start up a new unit sometime in the future just won't cut it legally. jhankins is correct, under the BSA charter rules all the equipment goes to the CO to do with as they wish, if they fold their unit then it goes to the council. I don't like it either but thats the way the BSA has it set up under the charter agreement. At one council I was in the SE would hold an annual sale of all the equipment turned over to them from folded units. It was kind of sad to see the troop numbers of these now defunct units on this stuff as people scowered for bargains.

[qwazse]

Wow! The church pays for none of our units' fees (like some of you lucky ones), but they do keep the heat on and give us substantial storage space. Right now only one youth is a member.

 

We point that out to our youth constantly. There are a lot of "whiz-bang" youth ministries at neighboring churches, but none of them have made the commitment to start a pack, troop, or crew. Ours does all three. Our kids do the favor by showing up at Scout Sunday, and providing the occasional service day or Eagle project.

 

Sounds like this is not unusual.