Who Causes the Most Trouble in Units?

[jvankirk]

anyone who won't help the boys run their own troop.

[frankpalazzi]

"Crossover" adults who don't understand the difference between the Cub Scout (Adult led) and the Boy Scout (Boy Led) programs. We actually have a committee member who is an Eagle who couldn't discern the difference, and it took several discussions to help him "see the light". Even with our occasional "New Parent Orientations", there is a thing called "selective hearing" that takes place!

[CA_Scouter]

Ya. Overtrained IMHO...

 

Quoting the 'there is no class B designation on Boys scouts' and sending a broadcast email to our group along with a link to some quotation on the subject ( who the heck cares what you call it??!?? )

 

The 'Generals' as rkfrance notes.

 

The one who publicly chastised me for asserting that patrols could go on outings by themselves. He also took it up with our district commissioner. Unfortunately the DC agreed with him...

 

The same guy who complains about not being asked to do skillbases when we are having the scouts run 'em...

 

The ones who treat the scouts like little boys instead of young men.

 

Mostly the 'General' types...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[eagle90]

Amen to Frank Scout. New Crossover parents who don't understand in spite of all the orientations we give them about the differences between Cubs and Scouts.

[BadenP]

I agree, many crossover adult leaders from Cubs should have to attend a training twice as long as a new volunteer just to deprogram them from all the stuff they learned in cub trainings.

[desertrat77]

Adults, by far.

 

To paint with a Very Large Brush, and to broaden the scope to beyond units....

 

- Hypercritical parents who refuse to lend a hand

- Ego driven adult leaders ("their" troop/district/etc.)

- Clique Creatures/The Old Guard--if you weren't part of the council when Uncle Marvin was camp director back in the day, and you weren't inducted into the Camp Leakeytent Royal Order of the Ferrocious Ferrets as a scout (further stipulation: first 99 inductees are The Best People--triple digit folks need not join the conversation), well then you are just don't know a thing about scouting, and anything you may have done in another council was just a bunch of baloney, and if you dare talk about it, you'll get awkward silences and incredulous stares (you deserve it, bubba!)

- The Association of Woodbadge Worship

- Lots of knots earned, but can't tie one

- Long term scouters steeped in local intrigue, ancient feuds, etc.

- Training cadres that stretch 2 hours of training into 1.5 days

- The Professional Guild of Meeting Prolongers (esoteric questions, long diatribes on matters that only concern a few attendees, etc.)

 

PS "The Outdoors is a Scary Place" Crowd

 

(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

[Engineer61]

Leaders.

[Basementdweller]

Ok engineer, leaders all quit. then what?

 

Ya gonna step up?

 

Now remember you only get $15 bucks from each scout, wait that all goes to national, which means you gotta get trained out of your own pocket, Youth protection, Intro to outdoor leader skills, wilderness first aid, weather, on and on.

 

Hows that gonna work for ya?

 

Think ya got at the skills and know how to take your son camping, backpacking, rapelling, whitewater rafting, rock climbing, shooting sports or leadership? I don't have all those skills but I know other BSA leaders you poo poo about have them ane are willing to share them.(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

[Beavah]

Hard to say about "trouble". I reckon plenty a young lad can stir up a fair bit of "trouble" here and there.

 

In terms of issues that really tear units apart or cause 'em to sink, it's always adults.

 

I'm not too hard on the "generals" who are really still workin' with kids in the field. They have a lot of experience and they make things work. Because they have a lot of experience they often come off as gruff or "my way or the highway" types to parents, since it's hard to keep givin' long explanations over and over when yeh really just want to work with the boys. They do tend to leave a big hole when they finally retire, though, and sometimes they push other good people away.

 

Da "I'm going to get this for my son, come hell or high water" group is probably the biggest drain on da program. They just take up so much leader time and energy, eh? Cause leaders to lose the sense of fun, and really hurt the program for all the kids.

 

Da unit leaders who are so confrontation-adverse that they don't address poor youth or adult behavior are pretty bad.

 

The Cub Scout parents who haven't been deprogrammed yet can be a real challenge.

 

I like AK's group, too... the folks who think their online SSD training allows 'em to tell the fellow with 15 years as a Lifeguard what to do, eh? Those who confuse remembering quotations with having knowledge.

 

The adults who have way too much ego tied up in this kid's game.

 

So here's a question... what are your best ways of dealing with each type or group? As long as we're griping, we might as well share some solutions, eh?

 

Beavah

 

[83Eagle]

The way I deal with them as CM, I actually learned here. When they complain I hand them the offical BSA complaint form, 524-501A, and ask for a $15 processing fee to file it.

[OldGreyEagle]

Seems like a lot of people see zealous cub scout parents who come in and don't know the boy scout program as the most troublesome.

 

Just a thought

 

How are these people, the zealous cub scout parents, taught the boy scout program? Yes, they may be ignorant of the way of boy Scouts, but ignorant just means never been told. Who is supposed to impart the required knowledge?

[Beavah]

Good question, OGE. It's pretty much left up to da unit leaders in the troop, eh? That makes it pretty ad hoc. It would be nice if Irving put out an official "Cubs to Scout transition for parents" set of materials that would help younger troops and give that magical sense of being official.

 

Thing is, it's really a change of mindset, eh? And there's no way to teach a change of mindset. Yeh can give 'em all the information in the world, as someone suggests, but it's just words. Yeh can't help thinking in the mindset you're in until you've built up some contrary experience (and been given some "correction" along the way).

 

B

 

[Engineer61]

 

If the Leaders want to quit rather than to the job better, that's up to them.

 

But as long a Leaders think that they have no issues, the program cannot improve.

 

It's far easier and more beneficial to change the constant, rather than try to anticipate the variables.

 

In a Troop, the constant is the Leaders (especially SM's it seems), not the Parents and not the Scouts.

 

Here is a for instance... in our troop, roughly 1/2 the boys cannot attend Summer Camp with the troop because they must leave town to spend summers with the other parent.

 

Of course, the SM's (and this board's) response to this is, "do a provisional camp or camp in the other location". Since the provisional camp is in the middle of the summer break, that doesn't work...and what is the chance that a 6th or 7th grader is going to really want to consider going away for a week with a group that they have never met ... not much.

 

What are some alternatives?

 

1) Scout gets fed up that he doesn't get the opportunities that his friends do...and quits.

 

2) Scout stays in gets 4 or 5 MB's a year...maybe makes Life before he ages out.

 

3) Camp decides to put the provisional camp at the very start or very end of the summer season.

 

4) SM's in the area decide to get together and rotate weeks for summer camp.

 

Which happens?

 

[Beavah]

Yah, E61, yeh raise an interesting question so I spun it off as a new thread.

 

Related to this thread, I wonder a bit why it's the troop leader's problem, eh? I mean if the lad is in band and wants to go to band camp, the date is set by the school and if yeh can't come yeh can't come. Around these parts band camp can fall in early August while school doesn't start for weeks after the boys get back. Sports camps can be the same. And unlike da scout volunteer, those schools folks are paid.

 

Now, the scouts do give yeh options, eh? The boy can go provisional on his own to any camp most weeks. He can do that local to (and with) his summertime parent or at a camp in his wintertime state. He can also go as a guest of another troop in either location at a different time than his regular troop. If he goes with a troop at his summertime location, he can make and maintain strong friendships that can be renewed each summer.

 

So da poor scout volunteers provide loads more options and accommodations than the paid professional school and sports people.

 

Which brings us back to this thread's topic, and one I missed. Ungrateful folks who take for granted volunteers who give thousands of hours and thousands of dollars to do somethin' nice for other people's kids, and then gripe when their son's experience can't be custom tailored to their particular desires. It can be downright discouraging, and leads to a lot of burnout.

 

Where are the parents? Me, if I were the dad, I'd fly the kid back home for the week to do camp, and come with him! Either that, or find him a great local troop for the summer and go with him to their camp. Because that's just what yeh do as parent to support your kid.

 

Beavah

[Eagle92]

Whoever said CS parents who haven't been "deprogrammed" yet is right on. I met a bunch of them as a ASM back in the day, and pray to God that I do not turn into one when oldest crosses over. Good news is that I have been working with a great DC who, although is rough around the edges, is worth his weight in gold. Bad news is that I'm losing him to the Webelos as they just lost their WDL, and the new one needs help, esp. in the outdoor skills. I am hoping to recruit a Venturer to fill his place.

 

Now how do you deprogram CS parents? Some of the things my troop did was form them up as a patrol in the adult's campsite, and keep them busy. Yes the usual camp chores, but also some relaxing stuff like fishing, reading etc. Sometimes take them on a hike, or canoeing. Key was to keep them busy and out of the way.