Why?

[moosetracker]

Well disband the pack may be too harsh, especially since it would not be your call alone to make. But a warning of thinking you will back out on your 4 year committment due to other family commitments, unless you get others stepping up to do things that THEY want done but THEY will not lift a finger to make happen.. Just explain there is too much that they are burdening you with with absolutely no help from others, and you are spread too thin.. Since your family is no longer in the Pack, and the Pack seems to be demanding the most of your time, it is the sensible thing to choose to back out of..

 

Then if no one steps up, step out, and commit your time to the activities that your family is involved in.. If they do step up, then you at least have changed your commitment from being absolute, to being on the condition others step up and help out.. If after 6 months they start backing back out, just mutter a few warnings to the right groups of people to get them to step back in again.

[83Eagle]

No one can take advantage of you without your permission.

[Lisabob]

Talk to your COR and IH. Tell it like it is.

 

I have to say, I couldn't understand why many of your posts come across as kind of angry, but now I do. You are way over-committed, clearly feeling burned, and apparently without seeing a way out for yourself. That would make me angry, too. It can be easy, when volunteering, to get caught up in a sense of obligation that becomes overwhelming. The weight of the world - or this pack - is not yours to bear alone, no matter what some folks might tell you. Take some steps back and evaluate where you really want to feel committed, and start shifting your focus over to those areas, instead. While in the short run you are keeping this pack going, in the longer term if you resent the role you are in, it will show through to the program and you'll be miserable, to boot (which is what a lot of your posts are sounding like, to me).

 

I'm glad to hear that you enjoy time spent in other aspects of scouting though.

[NJCubScouter]

Basementdweller, we all have our "styles" of doing things, and what I would do and what you or someone else in the forum might do are not necessarily the same. Having said that, if I were in your position, with the other parents and even the district making your experience as CM a miserable, my conclusion would probably be that my "commitment" had been fulfilled. (I would not have made a specific time commitment in the first place, but you did, and now you have to decide whether it is still valid.) It also would not be my "style" to "threaten" to step down unless the other parents stepped up to support you. I would set a departure date, whether it be 3 months, 6 months, 1 year, whatever, and have a meeting with the other parents and tell them this, and why you are doing it. As I see it, there are three major possibilities after that: One, someone(s) step up and continue the pack. Two, everybody (or almost everybody) steps up and promises to help you or at least not hinder you, and they also ask you to stay as CM, which you can either accept or decline. Three, nobody steps up and after you leave, the pack disintegrates. Even if the third possibility is what happens, you have done your job. A unit should not depend entirely on one person.

[83Eagle]

You made a commitment to be a CM, not to be a slave. The answer is to say "I'm not doing XYZ activity" or at least not if the volunteer sheet doesnt get filled up. When 20 kids and no adults show up to build cars, you don't build cars you call the parents for pickup.

 

What you are doing is not fair to yourself, the boys, or the program.

 

I'm sorry, I'm trying to make a point to not get involved in these types of discussions but this one really struck a nerve. These parents need a good dose of vitamin N.

[DeanRx]

Basement-

 

You are way above what I could have put up with. PWD build, I would have cancelled it b/c of failure of adult supervision. Plain and simple. Let the scouts know thatyou need some moms and dads to show up and help out or you cannot have the build date. Use the children's peer pressure - either they want it and will get it out of their parents or they won't.

 

Second - any flak I get from a DE or UC about FOS and not enough dollars or waxing and waning roster numbers would be met with a HUGE steaming cup of some not-so-scoutlike comebacks. I had a DE try to shake me down ONCE about FOS, I told him, "My job is to provide program for youth, not prvide your paychek. If it wasn't enough, ten we just wo't even do a FOS at B&G next year." He changed hs tune really fast.

 

Bottom line - people will run all ove yo as much as you allow them to. Aso, those of us that do volunteer havea vr had time saying "no". You need to learn to say "no without feelig quilty about it.

 

I say have a Pack meetig, pre-recruit two adults to lead some outdoor gaes for the boys, then YOU have a come-to-Jesus meeting with the parents inside. Print and show them your OP. Flat out ask them if ANY of them even realized this is how you are feeling. Then lay out the types and numbers of volunteers you need to actually run the pack and tell them that the meeting will NOT adjourn until: 1) You have firm commitments to help with leadership or 2) The parents VOTE to disband the unit.

 

If its #2 - let them know up front that THEY, not you get to break the news to their kids.

 

Your kids are already beyond the cub years, so no big deal to you if the unit folds... its THEIR unit and you provide program. Ask THEM what THEY want to do with THEIR unit and then follow through on it.

 

My 2-cents (BTW - the come-to-Jesus meeting works well, I've had to use it a couple times in my career). You have to get to the point that wanting a quality unit / program outwieghs your fear of being seen as an *sshole. Sometimes the best leaders lead the horse to water... sometimes great leaders hold the horse's head IN the trough until they either drink or drown. Force that pony's nose in the water.

[Basementdweller]

fscout.... I know it was a violation of youth protection. What am I gonna do? The kids mom dumped him at the door and ran......I called every single phone number I had for them, including grandma's and even a work number. We Sat in the lobby and waited, church members were in and out. mom was not remotely apologetic. I am guessing she was at the bar.

 

Most of the Parents dumped and ran, a couple even came in before they booked.......took a look around one got a cup of coffee before they left just after they said hi. The simple fix is no more pinewood derby workshop days.

 

 

I don't have a vote on the committee I am program, they are administrative.

 

I have a couple of examples......The career arrow assembled is $25 as a kit $15......What was I given, the kit. Spent most of my free time over the week assembling them.....now I am banding them. The committee wanted the pinewood cars routered for the v shaped weights in the bottom before they were given to the boy. So I spent new years day routering 70 pine wood cars.

 

You are correct No is liberating and it my just come to that.

 

You are correct I did this to myself, but the key to troop survival is a good feeder pack or packs. Our Pack and Troop has grown significantly since my commitment. We are retaining 90% of our cubs and doubling the size of the troop two years in a row. We are working thru some of the growth problems, right now. I view my job as retaining and feeding cubs to the troop.

 

 

But more to the point it is the way the volunteers are treated thru out the BSA. I received a string of emails from the DE about more rules and regs.......Just about had it. The way the district level people treat us.

 

 

WHY?

 

[Lisabob]

OK so if you are doing this mainly for the troop, and you've mentioned the troop has a BUNCH of adults who are too old to camp, then you might also want to go to the troop and tell THEM you need help and pronto.

 

 

[Scoutfish]

I'll tell you why:

 

Behind that grumpy ass old man face you are putting up is a kid at heart with a big heart who cares about something that nobody else in your unit does: The boys. The SE and DE want numbers which represent money. The parents want a break from the brats ( who incidentally -are brats because of the parenting), the committee is just a group who pats itself on the back for it's ideas and orders, not any actual useful hands. They are too self important in knowing that they run a great program.

 

 

But somewhere, they all forgot what it was that put each one where they are.....the boys.

 

But you my friend, work tireless hours through this cramp,that ache and those blisters in order that the boys themselves get a a little bit of time not only being being boys, but being kids.

 

As far as youth protection violations....nah, you did not violate anything, the people who put you in that position did. What you did was prevent abandonment.

 

If anybody from council asks you about a YP violation, tell them next time that you will abandon the kids and leave them completely alone ....all in the name of scouting!

[83Eagle]

When mom is 2 hours late you call the sheriff and say you are concerned something has happened.

 

Regarding FOS, the FOS coordinator is explicitly a committee position. Tell your DE you will forward all FOS stuff to your committee, and that he should deal with them with any concerns. Then tell your committee you are not handling it because it is not your responsibility.

 

You are already not a voting member and are getting dumped on by parents, your committee, and your district. Time to man up or get out. Sorry to be so negative/direct but that's the way I see it,

[Eagle732]

When I was CM I wouldn't allow "Dump and Run" for pack or den activities with the exception of the Web dens. That I left up to the discretion of the WDLs.

I also started going down the "Nobody wants to help" road but I fixed it easy enough. During the annual planning meeting we decided on activities for the year along with the lead person for the event. No lead volunteer, no activity. I stuck to it and after canceling a camping trip they knew I meant business. Parents have to understand that the Cub program is a family oriented program.

When I signed up new kids we formed dens and expected one DL, ADL and MC from each den. The remaining parents helped with running events. I never had to tell an entire group of new boys that if their parents didn't step up to fill the required positions then they would not be part of this pack, but I was prepared to do it. Now we did work with the new parents and showed them how easy it was to be a DL, you know, 1 hour a week, just follow the book, etc.

By enforcing these policies we ended up with a group of parents that all knew they were expected to help and as new ones came in they saw what was expected and just followed along. It was a lot harder to change the course than to keep things on course.

[SeattlePioneer]

1) Expensive training

 

I wouldn't hesitate to send the pack a receipt for any training expenses you have incurred. Of course I'd ask the treasurer to include those costs as a budget item. Training would be for Committee members, Den Leaders and Pack leaders.

 

Unfortunately, not too many will take advantage of that, but let's give them every encouragement!

 

 

2) Complaining District Executive.

 

Well, DEs have their job to do as well.

 

Perhaps you should study the methods of your DE. He is preumably making it clear what he expe3cts and what he needs from you. Those are methods you can use to get parents to start helping you with the things that need to be done.

 

Secondly, you can start bargaining with the DE. You need some help in devising a strategy to get parents to help out in leading the pack. It's likely that the DE knows a district volunteer who is good at helping to do that.

 

Ask the DE for some help in devising a strategy and methods calculated to get more parents involved in making the pack work. You could make a similar appeal to the Disrict Commissioner.

 

Another approach would be to attend your district committee meeting, held once/month. If you explain the problems that you are having and that you need some help devising strategies to get the help you need, you'll probably be introduced to someone who can help you come up with a strategy.

 

 

[shortridge]

I don't have a vote on the committee I am program, they are administrative.

 

Just say that out loud the next time your committee pulls a stunt like this:

 

The committee wanted the pinewood cars routered for the v shaped weights in the bottom before they were given to the boy. So I spent new years day routering 70 pine wood cars.

 

The committee doesn't get to dictate program stuff like that. Give the kids and their parents the kits, instructions and rules and let 'em do it themselves...

[moosetracker]

I was going to say something similar to shortridge..

 

You can say no more PWD days, as yes most Packs get the block of wood & need to go home and make the car.. You just decided that you will be like most packs..

 

You as CM, run the Pack meeting with you ACM.. Make sure the DL's are doing their jobs during den meetings. And are lead person on things like a Pack campout.. Deal with problems a scout (not scouter) may have.. End of your job..

 

Committee..

 

Deals with Complaining parents.

Deals with FOS & complaining DE's on the subject.

Do the pre-organizing for any type of prep work for a function.. (ex. make sure you have a place to hold the Pack meeting, sets up the awards before the Pack meeting, make sure the arrows are set up before the AOL awards, on camping trips make sure the arrangements are made as to food, equipment etc.. whose bringing what..)..

 

These are all the committees job.. And NO the committee can not do it's job by assuming the CM/SM will do every little thing they think up.. Their job is to take the work off the CM/SM so that he can plan on program..

 

You are the figure head of the event.. You are not the workhorse of the event. That is the committees job..

 

Edited to add: Remember you are not just feeding up the cubscouts, you are feeding up the parents into the troop.. Train the parents now, or you will have the same problems when they get to the Troop.. Troop is a little better because somethings can be made the responsibility of the boys, but there are still complaining parents, car organization for trips, At least 2 deep leadership on events, summer camp organizations (at least med-forms which should be confidential & not assigned to the youth..) etc.. Your older scouters are may or may not be there still..(This message has been edited by moosetracker)(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

[Basementdweller]

Good idea moosetracker regarding the old SM's helping the pack. They do help at the blue and gold and at the Pinewood, maybe I need to push a bit to get some help on meeting nights.

 

Our Pack is poor that is why the receipts for training are not being turned in.......$250 for woodbadge???? that is more than we are spending on the blue and gold and pinewood.

 

What the cub program has lacked is in the past is stability. Four CM in four years. 100% turn over in den leaders. It is no wonder they were down to 10 boys. Since I took over as CM we have 100% direct contact leader retention and 90% scout retention. The year I joined the pack we crossed zero scouts into the Troop, second 4, this year 10.

 

My 5 year commitment was to bring in new leaders, stabilize the program and develop long term goals and programs with in the Pack. Lets face it, it is easier to recruit leaders if they know you are not going to leave in a year or two.

 

In the last two years we have developed a pack budget, never had one before. A succession plan, never had one before. Pack calendar planned 18 months out. Individual scout accounts to encourage fund raising. We quadrupled our popcorn sale. We doubled the size of our Pack last year from 30 to 60, the first year we went from 10 to 30. We have a monthly Pack activity, family hike, family camp, or family event. We went from near zero balance in the bank to having a savings account. Created a Sibling den....they do their own program and advance as well. we got the Pack out of the den leaders pockets, previously the den leaders financed their own dens out of pockets, the dens have a budget for activities.

 

Had some success for sure and the program has improved dramatically, the Minister couldn't be happier, the Church is Rocking with energy on "Scout night".

 

 

Why?(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)