New BSA Medical Forms

[moosetracker]

I always thought the medical profession should standardize their own med-form.. Print it from the computer with the necessary med info on it, and sign.. One form and insist the schools, youth sports, youth organizations all adjust to the fact that this is what they get..

 

I didn't know personally, but when I have always wondered if these multiple med forms every different way on the whims of the organization requesting it, was bogging down the med profession.. My son wasn't into too many after school activities but during HS our doctor had to fill out 3 different ones yearly for us.

[Eagle92]

Moose,

 

Believe it or not, it's not the sports and BSA health forms that are the problem, try government regulations on forms. Docs can no longer just sign stuff or sign and date stuff, they have to sign, date, and time it, otherwise if it doesn't meet within certain time frames, Medicare/Medicaid won't pay a penny.

 

Don't get me started on this topic.

[JMHawkins]

BSA is actually trying to do away with multiple forms, hence the 1 form.

 

Back in college, my roommate brought home an answering machine one day. The box had big letters proclaiming "One-button operation!" The manual made a big deal out of how the machine was simple to use because it only had one button.

 

Indeed, it only had one button. You pushed it once to play new messages, that part I remember. If you wanted to replay messages, I think you pushed it twice, or maybe that was how you deleted messages, and replaying was push-and-hold till it beeped. Pushing and holding till it beeped, then pushing it some number of times afterwards was definitely how you recorded a new outgoing message. I accidentally deleted a lot of messages with that machine. I think it cost me more than one date back then.

 

It did four things. It needed four buttons: Play, Replay, Delete, Record. Four buttons with clear labels would have been way less confusing.

 

Iriving didn't recently hire any ex-answering machine designers did they?

[wayne@gctel.net]

National just released a 2/2011 revision to the health form which addresses the problem of the examiners certification. For each of the items the examiner is attesting to, they have added a true/false box allowing the examiner to check the appropriate box. Additionally, in the Policy section, it refers to "See the FAQs for when this does not apply" in reference to the height/weight chart. In the FAQ, they have clarified that for the most part council camps would be exempt.

 

Here is a link to the new form:

 

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/HealthSafety/pdf/whole.pdf

 

 

Wayne

[T2Eagle]

That would make this the new, new, new medical forms?

[RememberSchiff]

No coordination with new Tour Planning Worksheet, i.e., on that worksheet there is no consideration of time to reach emergency vehicle access roadways or even a definitive statement that the weight chart applies for planned tour. Easy fix for the latter, under "Type of trip" add "Health & Medical weight restrictions apply to ALL participants."

 

Require ALL scout camps to state upfront, in writing, whether weight restrictions apply to their camp in general or their programs selectively. Do it NOW.

 

No mention of Jamboree or Summit.

 

Expect more updates.

 

My $0.02

[The Blancmange]

Well, this is certainly an improvement. Doesn't fix all of the issues mentioned, but it is much better.

 

My question, however, is what about people who possibly spent a significant amount of money over the last month to get the original "new" form filled out for this upcoming year? Is BSA going to reimburse them to have the revised form completed? Will they accept the interim form?

[RichardB]

The Blancmange valid medical records are valid in 2011.

 

RememberSchiff, the Tour Plan reminds folks to have AHMR (which has generated several questions, apparently the need for this is "new" to some). So are you saying you want the Tour Plan to remind you when to execute on H/W issues for each tour? How would you set it up so that it would be clear to all using it?

[moosetracker]

 

TheBlanc - the Health form is stated to be a living form.. Therefore it can change today, next week, next month.. Meaning you should pull a new one close to going to your exam, and it is good until the next time you go to the exam.. If it changes 10 times between these two dates, then don't worry about it.

 

 

RichardB - took me a while to figure out AHMR, was the med form itself (Annual Health & Medical Record) I find it hard to imagine some don't know about the med form, unless they are new scouts who have never been to camp.

 

 

 

I for one would take the wording "Enforcing the height/weight guidelines is strongly encouraged for all other events." or at least change it to something like ""Enforcing the height/weight guidelines is strongly encouraged for other events where it is a risk factor." or better yet, " Enforcing any health concerns is strongly encouraged for other events where it is a risk factor."

 

Take from my troop a boy who could have up 20-30 seizures in the course of a day.. (Don't allow him on the high wire Cope Course).. Or the kid with 3/4 of a heart, where when his heart fails there will be no reviving him.. With both kids their parents and the boys use common sense, but the medical concerns are such the troop leaders would need to say "No" if they didn't regardless of the fact they have no weight issues..

 

The "all other events." is confusing, and easily mis-inturpreted...

 

I didn't realize it until now, you are the guy responding to my emails to National!.. We just had a chat on my confusion with the "all other events.".. What you emailed me makes sense, what the form says does not.

 

We also talked about permissions - I will admit my Troop has been lax with the Parent permission.. For big trips it was just a short self made note of permission.. For little trips it's just verbal..

 

I really like the "Activity Consent Form and Approval by Parents or Guardian " but looking at the tour permit where it just states "permissions are secured".. I do not get something as formal as the Activity Consent Form, which includes "Waver of liability", or to even look for an official form. I basically get "make sure mom or dad, know the kid is with you this weekend, and he did not climb out his bedroom window and come to the event without their knowledge".. Which is just common sense and as important as making sure the kid gets picked up by a proper person approved by the guardian, and not some stranger off the streets..(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

[RememberSchiff]

So are you saying you want the Tour Plan to remind you when to execute on H/W issues for each tour?

More than remind, state Yes or No whether H/W requirements apply for tour. Makes it clear who can participate. Whether they will abide is another matter.

 

How would you set it up so that it would be clear to all using it?

That is already stated in Form C. Is it clear there?

 

But honestly, I don't see anyone out in the field checking a participant's weight for their unit-planned high adventure trips. I have never seen a unit check driver's licenses or auto-insurance either.

 

My $0.01

[HICO_Eagle]

I still think the new new new form stinks. The Talent Release doesn't belong on Side B and I dispute the use of BMI tables that were drafted as a guideline to healthy living rather than as any kind of guideline for outdoor activity. I prefer the old approach where the physician certifies the individual is cleared for specific types of activities -- or indicates which ones s/he won't certify.

[moosetracker]

I will accept the H/W for dragging them out of the backwoods, not as the participant is more likely to have health issues in the backwoods if overweight.. But, more as a problem to the other participants, or to a rescue team should he need to be dragged out of the woods.. Although an overweight 10 year old could be no heavier then a full grown man with no weight issues.. And the overweight football/wrestling team player may be the great one to have in the backwoods to haul out the normal weight full grown man, that trip and broke his leg.. I will also accept that the overweight kid that gets winded crossing the parking lot, is a more serious health risk.. But that is again putting it back to common sense evaluation, as to who is overweight and a health risk and who is overweight and not a health risk..

 

I am fine with the following email I got, regarding how I am to interpret everything..

 

That the 30 minutes from an egress road is all we need to read into these statements as a definite rule..

for all else the following from the Guide to Safe Scouting is what should be followed..

 

 

In situations not specifically covered in this guide, activity planners should evaluate the risk or potential risk of harm, and respond with action plans based on common sense, community standards, the Boy Scout motto, and safety policies and practices commonly prescribed for the activity by experienced providers and practitioners.

 

 

Now all we need to do is get the health forms to state that and not say things like "Enforcing the height/weight guidelines is strongly encouraged for all other events."

 

Blanket statements about health have been used before when sometimes they do not make sense..

 

Take the kid who was having multiple seizures per day.. Got medication and was having no seizures.. Then Dr. wanted to take him off meds to see if he still needed it.. Well by now, he was of driving age.. Taking him off meds may cause him to have a seizure. He could go back on meds if that happened, and all be ok. Except since he had had a seizure now by state law, he could not drive for a year. For this reason, Dr. was not given permission by the patient to run the test, and patient will be on medication for life.. All due to a blanket rule by the state, that give no common sense leeway.

[Eagle92]

The problem I have with the H/W chart is that I have known folks who are "overweight" by the chart, but are not by more accurate BMI tests. I bet if I check around in the SE portion of my council, the HW chart is a problem for some of the Devil Dogs at Cherry Point and LeJeune. I have a feeling my friend just back from Afghanistan would not qualify under H/W guidelines, and I'm told the area is comparable to Philmont, except folks aren't shooting at ya.

 

Another problem is SSN. The FAQ say Q. Why do I need to put my childs or my own social security number on the record? A. It is your choice as to whether you fill in this number; however, in many states, medical care cannot be rendered without it.

 

THIS IS A VIOLATION OF HIPAA LAW (caps for emphasis) you show up in a Emergency Room, they have to treat ya. That is federal law.

 

In refernce to the Talent Release section, while I admit I do not like it and think it should be separate form anything else, there have been many councils wanting it so it was included.

[wayne@gctel.net]

Eagle92....

 

Actually withholding the medical screening for the presence and treatement of a severe medical condition would be a violation of the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act (EMTALA), not HIPAA.

 

TITLE 42 CFR > CHAPTER 7 > SUBCHAPTER XVIII > Part E > 1395dd

 

In the case of a hospital that has a hospital emergency department, if any individual (whether or not eligible for benefits under this subchapter) comes to the emergency department and a request is made on the individuals behalf for examination or treatment for a medical condition, the hospital must provide for an appropriate medical screening examination within the capability of the hospitals emergency department, including ancillary services routinely available to the emergency department, to determine whether or not an emergency medical condition (within the meaning of subsection (e)(1) of this section) exists.

 

The term emergency medical condition means

(A) a medical condition manifesting itself by acute symptoms of sufficient severity (including severe pain) such that the absence of immediate medical attention could reasonably be expected to result in

(i) placing the health of the individual (or, with respect to a pregnant woman, the health of the woman or her unborn child) in serious jeopardy,

(ii) serious impairment to bodily functions, or

(iii) serious dysfunction of any bodily organ or part

 

Now, with this being said, the patient would have to be screened for the presence of a qualifying emergency medical condition and if one is found necessary stabilizing treatment rendered. However, for minor injuries or illnesses, the provider could refuse treatment after the screening exam. Likely...no... Patients report to the hospital and clinics all the time without SSN,or even insurance information. That is what hospital business office staff is for, they should be following up with patient/parent/guardian afterward to get the necessary information for proper billing...

 

As for do I see the SSN on the forms turned into camp....I would say it is about a 50-50 split. Personally, I would much rather see someone attach copies front and back of their insurance card over putting the SSN on the form. The card has much more value to the provider and through the online systems provided by the insurance companies, the provider can get a lot of the other admitting information they need.

[Eagle92]

MY BAD!

 

Correct EMTALA, not HIPAA. I got HIPAA on the brain as I have to remind job shadowing students that they cannot take pictures while shadowing. You'd be surprise at what people try to do, even after reading and taking a test stating no video or audio recording permitted.