New BSA Medical Forms

[Roadkill Patrol]

I just sent an email to our DE and Camp Director asking for clarification because on our camp website, they are still showing the old health form. So at this point, I don't even know which one to use. If there are no adjustments made to the new form, then our troop won't be able to go to summer camp because the leaders are outside the range.

[Eagle92]

Roadkill,

 

That form is so new, that MANY folks don't know about the changes, including the pros. I had to tell my SE and CSDC staff adviser about them. And at District Committee training there were some moans form the audience when I mentioned the new forms.

[Eagle92]

TYPO IN LATS POST, make that DE not SE

[GKlose]

Our DE sent out the newest medical form (11/2010) but said in the email that it was the same form that we were supposed to start using starting Jan 1, 2010.

 

I replied to him that it was an all-new form, but I didn't hear anything back from him. I did notice, however, that links on the council website, and on the summer camp websites (including the out-of-council camp we attended last year) all have the newest form on them.

[HICO_Eagle]

Luckily, the Colorado Scout Camps form is based off the 2007 edition and is still being used in Colorado. I e-mailed the committee with a general complaint about the form. This thing is ridiculous!

 

Why doesn't National do what the Internet or government staffs do and put major revisions out for comment before implementation? I'd have given them all kinds of (constructive) feedback on the 11th edition of the Scout Handbook, the current edition of the Scoutmaster Handbook and this form.

[Eagle92]

HICO,

 

I actually think national heard. 1 of the complaints I heard about the 2008 forms was that Sections A and C, the parts that parents fill out, were not together. Now they are. Also the current Section C, the section that requires a physical, is now being used at the HA bases, so no more multiple forms.

 

I am still upset b/c they say no SSN may delay medical services. Pure HORSEHOCKEY as that is against HIPAA, a federal law.

[Eagle732]

moosetracker wrote "We also have a boy without a full heart, who could die anytime.. But parents know it, we know it and they want their son to have as much fun as possible.. But when he goes, he goes.. "

 

Wow! Moose, it takes a good hearted person to take on that kind of responsibility (no pun intended). This is the reason why all Scoutmasters go to heaven.

 

If you review the cases of Scouts dying on trips there is quite a few who die from heat related illnesses. Overweight kids are very susceptible to this. Are we going to loose boys over the weight limits, probably some. But how would you feel if you came home with one less Scout?

 

[AwHeck]

HICO, I was told at a Commissioners training event that the Colorado Legislature had approved of the National Health form so the Colorado specific form would no longer be used. I have not yet been able to verify this information.

[wayne@gctel.net]

As a camp health officer, I am happy to see some of the changes made to the health history forms this fall. I believe rearranging some of the information on the form will help my staff to more efficiently review these forms and get scouts and scouters through the health checks quicker on arrival day.

 

I found it interesting some persons are asserting that Part C may not be required for summer camp. That is far from the truth as the length of the event lasts longer than the 72 hours, and summer camps are considered to be residential camps. Per both the form and the FAQ document,this would necessitate completion of that section of the form. Additionally, State Law trumps BSA policy. For example, in Minnesota any person who is attending a licensed youth camp regardless of length of stay is required to present a health certificate with health history, documentation of immunization status, and certification of lack of communicable diseases signed by a licensed healthcare practitioner. This certification must be within 90 days of the first day of camp.

 

There has also been a lot of discussion about troops might not be able to attend camp because leaders cannot meet the weight/height requirements of Part C. The wording inside the box in the top section of Part C indicates this is mandatory for High Adventure treks and events where the participant would be more than 30 minutes from an emergency vehicle acceptable road. Most council camps would not fit this criteria. Information in the forms FAQ reads:

 

"Q. Our camp is at least 30 minutes from the local hospital by ambulance or EMS. Does this mean that we automatically have to meet the height/weight requirements for all activities at the camp?

A. While response time for basic or advanced life support should be a consideration for a camps emergency action plan, it is not the records intent. If your travels by foot, bicycle, horseback, afloat, or whatever the mode of transportation take you more than 30 minutes off of an accessible roadway where in an emergency vehicle can reach you, you will be required to meet the height/weight requirements to make sure that a rescue can be made safely. "

 

Again, most camps would not meet this criteria and would not be subject to the mandated requirements unless the local council was to deem it necessary.

[moosetracker]

Problem is Wayne, the Dr.. whether he/she reads the

The wording inside the box in the top section of Part C indicates this is mandatory for High Adventure treks and events where the participant would be more than 30 minutes from an emergency vehicle acceptable road.

 

This will not mean much to him/her, as he will not know the camp we will attend, or the High Adventure stuff the troop will do.. How & When the form will be used if of no concern to him/her..

 

What will be a issue to them will be the writing in the signature box that state he is signing to attesting the participant has no medical issues in the list that is in his signature box.. The signature box will keep him from signing.. The signature box is set up for high adventure and high adventure only, and not for residency camp or non-high adventure outings..

 

So again, unless the camps, allow people in with the medical form all filled out but no Dr signature, there is an issue.. And National is aware there is an issue, and is looking into it..

 

But our health forms are due Mid-May, so let us hope the wheels of bureaucracy gets a shot of adrenalin on this one..

[wayne@gctel.net]

I sent off a hypothetical case to a few physicians I know along with copies of the health form. The scenario was 14 year old male who exceeded his weight/height requirement and had a seizure six months ago. As was predicted here in this forum, the physicians indicated they would not sign the form.

 

Here in MN, that of course causes a huge problem since no signature means denial of admittance to a licensed youth camp for all ages. I have been working with my council on this issue, National is well aware of the issue and indicated they are working on the form...we may be able to expect changes sometime in the next couple of weeks.

[5yearscouter]

All national has to do is change the wording of the box the dr signs _______

the scout in question is deemed reasonably phycially fit to participate in basic outdoor activities, hikes and overnight campouts including a 1 week summer camp where medical care is readily available.

there could be those little check mark places or places for the dr to initial however many of the things the BSA wants checked off [swimming, hiking, backpacking or whatever they want on there]

 

then have another line that says Part D medical clearance,

with a spot for the dr to sign _______that says the scout ALSO passes this level of medical clearance

1. to ALSO attend high adventure bases, very strenuous work projects and activities that would take them outside the area of readily available medical care. And I have read the Part D medical form information packet regarding what a High Adventure outing may entail.

 

It wouldn't be that difficult, by having 2 places for the dr to sign, one signature doesn't have to do so much and carry so much weight.

 

but yeah, right now my son is worried that a short, square scout in his troop can't attend summer camp at all because he won't pass the height weight chart. a basic boring bsa camp with a health officer and a medical facility within a reasonable drive. it will keep out the too fat kids from spending a week walking around camp and doing underwater basketweaving.

[moosetracker]

5YearScouter - That was my thought, just don't know if Dr. would sign a form in 2 places..

 

I know they use to have signature one place and some checks another, but the units will just take the signature, and allow them on all events.. So I know they are trying to make this form do double duty and say "OK for this.. Not OK for that".. And have it stand out to the units..

 

Probably even if it is as simple as two signature places, their legal team have to debate it and examine it and the whole 9 yards..

 

Wayne - nice to hear they gave you a more definative answer.. the reply I go just stated they were looking into the matter.. It gave you hope they were going to change it, but not a definite statement that it would be changed..

 

March 15 is when the early bird payment of a percentage of the camp fee must be in. It is hard for people to put down 10 to 15 percent non-refundable when unsure if their son (or if an Adult leader they themselves) may not be able to attend camp.

[JMHawkins]

... just don't know if Dr. would sign a form in 2 places..

 

Seems like it ought to just be two different forms then, a "frontcountry" form and a "backcountry" form. Or call them Standard and High Adventure if you'd rather. The frontcountry form asks the doc to confirm the Scout(er) is healthy enough for overnight camping a short walk from a vehicle, and the backcountry form asks the doc to confirm the Scout(er) is medically fit for strenuous activity perhaps some distance from help. It could even have a list of specific activites (SCUBA, Mountaineering, Rock Climbin, etc.) with a place for the doc to note restrictions (e.g. no SCUBA due to an underlying condition). Then the Scout(er) decides which form to get filled out based on what activities they plan to do.

 

 

[Eagle92]

BSA is actually trying to do away with multiple forms, hence the 1 form. As for physicians and signing stuff, from personal observations and anecdotal evidence, the paperwork that they must do is killing that profession since they have to "sign, date, and time" just about everything. BSA needs to follow the KISS approach to the forms.