New BSA Medical Forms

[5yearscouter]

BSA really needs to put an accurate release date at the bottom of these forms, and change the date every time they make a change/update/correction.

that will help volunteers be able to identify which is the more recent form when looking for the right form to use.

 

[Eagle007]

Yes, I agree. It looks as if several events including summer camps will not take place in my area because of the adult leaders exceeding the height to weight requirements; therefore, no two deep leadership will be available. No leadership at all will be available that I can think of for that matter. I think this is very ignorant.

[Proud Eagle]

Could the doctor strike out the part about meeting height and weight and then go ahead and sign it?

 

I know of several adult scouters who have run up against the height/weight rules and made very serious changes in their life to be able to meet those requirements. One of them had surgery so he could lose the weight needed to staff 2010 Jambo (and he needed to lose it any way), another I know went on a strict diet and exercise program to go from over 300lbs to under 200lbs to do cavalcade at Philmont. I know I could stand to lose a few pounds myself even though I am not what most people would call overweight, and I certainly need to be in better condition (too much time sitting at a desk or on the couch, I hate to say).

 

There does need to be some alternate method of qualifying based on BMI or some such since there are outliers who are in great health and condition but don't meet the weight requirements.

 

However, an awful lot of us need to start taking this physically fit stuff more seriously.

 

 

[drmbear]

I'm within the max allowable guidelines, but at times I just don't get where they come up with these BMI guidelines. I am 6'6" tall and weigh 270lbs - I'm a big guy - and I know I could stand to lose a few pounds. But when I was 13 and 14 years old, same height, and you couldn't find an ounce of fat on me, I was over the recommended weight for my height on those charts. I'd have to be anorexic or something in order to get within what they call normal guidelines. Just confusing to me.

[qwazse]

So do all of the seabase medical forms I circulated two months ago still work?

[Eagle92]

I'd contact Sea Base for clarification, and even then they may not know about the newer forms. I got an email of shock when I emailed my DE on this one, and looks of shock when I mentioned the newer forms at a day camp meeting.

 

In the absence of contacting Sea Base, I'd fill out BOTH forms. Download the the Parts A-C, which is one link, then D, which is a separate link. UNLESS diving is concerned, then download the full 13 page document that includes A-d and the PADI healthform for diving.

[5yearscouter]

Could the doctor strike out the part about meeting height and weight and then go ahead and sign it?

 

I guess the Dr. could do so.

But doesn't that just drive home the point that the form is WRONG???

Shouldn't the form have that as an option, rather than the dr's declaration that is non-negotiable?

 

Why does the FAQ state that the height and medical is not necessary for cub scout camps and most BSA camps, but that part C is still required for those outings--yet the form itself leave the dr no room for wiggle.

 

There doesn't even have to be that line in the dr's signature or anywhere on the form. The guide for height and weight is on the page, and the person's height and weight is also on the page. if there is a check box for "meets height and weight" that box should be right next to the actual height and weight. Then at camps or outings that require you to meet the height/weight requirement, the med person looks at the check marks, and verifies who can participate.

 

 

[SeattlePioneer]

Isn't that practical solution to fill out the old forms and ignore the new ones? Like a lot of things, I imagine that would work as a strategy for years to come.

 

Personally I ignore the on line trip permit system, which I find annoying to use. I fill out a trip permit by hand and mail it in. Never a problem.

[Gunny2862]

Moving to a BMI standard is going to go the wrong way for most large people - it is predicated on the idea that no one has any additional muscle for lifting and carrying things - runners would do fine with it but Loggers and Football linemen do poorly on BMI charts.

Now if we could exempt with body composition, that might work but additional muscle shouldn't necessarily be a bad thing unless we are talking about a horses carrying capacity or something like that where the actual load limit comes into play.

[moosetracker]

Seattle - Not our council camps. They check the forms with a fine tooth comb, don't forget to dot an i or you are out.

 

I wrote our DE to find out his take (who is bumping it up the line)..

 

Basically I told him the Bottom line, it means loss of membership. First work on how to get the Dr. Signature to meet the ability to go to camp.. Still, even if we can work around that, Units now are put in the predicament of two choices..

A) Plan a backpacking trip and single out Bobby & Pete to their embarressment as being unable to go, because they are porkers..

B) Dumb down their whole program so that everyone can attend all events..

 

In choice #1 you will get the overweight people leaving due to discrimination.. In choice #2 you will get alot of people who want and are use to a robust program leaving due to the fact the program offers no adventure any more.

 

I also feel for who ever is running Woodbadge this year.. First he has to un-invite half his staff that he asked to be on staff, and find new people.. Second he may not meet his participation quota to even host the program.

 

My son would also be disqualified for outings due to having Dystonia which causes symptoms similar to an epiletic attack.. We have a boy in our troop who has epilepsy..

We also have a boy without a full heart, who could die anytime.. But parents know it, we know it and they want their son to have as much fun as possible.. But when he goes, he goes..

 

With my son the Dr just wrote he could not participate in things with height, so he could not do rock climb or the cope course.. Now he could not do anything..

 

I know the other boys have limitations their Dr has written down..

 

Now per BSA.. "Oh but you still can be a scout! Give us your money and attend weekly meeting. You just can't do anything else, but maybe a car camping event if your unit offers them."

 

I think we will see many boys, boys who were not in sports for a reason, so they chose BSA for thier activity.. Now, leaving scouts also..

 

[Eagle007]

No offense to the military, paramilitary or law enforcement agencies but BSA IS NOT one of those programs. I've been through one of the finest law enforcement academies around and was hammered with weight requirements this and weight requirements that. I never had a problem in foot pursuits; I was a speed runner not endurance one.

 

I'm all for people being in shape and healthy. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I can stand to lose some table muscle. But this is a c'mon man moment for BSA.

 

I guarantee you that I can have four fingers pointing at me and point a thumb at a BSA National Head Honcho that wouldn't be able to meet these guidelines. I'm not bashing but rather making a point.

 

I think this could possibly be the slimming down (no pun intended) of numbers for BSA if they don't do away with this chart as a hard and fast rule. Scouts and scouters alike will be sitting at home instead of going to events/campouts or they will be going on unofficial BSA outings. I see a definite problem with the later as they wouldn't be covered under insurance.

[JMHawkins]

My reactions:

 

a) Health History section of Part A: do we really need this? The only reason to have it is if someone gets hurt on a trip and needs to be taken to the Emergency Room by the rest of the Unit, but since Part C is needed for anything far enough away not to be able to shout "MOM!!!!!" if the kid gets hurt, what good is a checkbox health history form? I especially like the line for "surgery". The question is "Are you now, or have you ever been treated for any of the following: surgery". Well, no, I've never been "treated" for surgery. I have "had" surgery - to remove my appendix 32 years ago. Should I list that? Perhaps what they really wanted is a separate section that says "Please list any major surgeries you've had:"

 

Better yet, ditch the history section of part A and make part C required for anyone on any outing if they have a history of serious medical issues. Had a heart attack? Please fill out section C to come to Troop meetings. Ask the doctor who does the exam to attach any notes he or she thinks another doctor treating the person under emergency conditions ought to have. Carry that with you. If the point is to be able to provide information to people treating the person, that's the thing to do.

 

Use the space saved on the checkboxes to expand the Allergies section. That's something I want to know about as a leader. Make it something useful like "Have you ever been stung by a bee? If so, did you have a serious allergic reaction?"

 

Ditch the immunization section. I find it hil-arious that tetanus shots are the only ones required when that's about the only non-communicable disease on the list. Billy who hasn't had his Whooping Cough shots can give it to the rest of the troop. Well, all except Joey, who wasn't allowed to come on the trip because he didn't have his tetanus boosters...

 

b) I'm in favor of encouraging fitness among both scouts and adults, but BSA's leadership simply has no standing to mandate weight/fitness conditions while being terribly out of shape themselves. I don't want to pick on anybody, but frankly it sends a bad message to the boys - namely that the people in charge can make rules for everyone else and exempt themselves. As Scoutmaster, would you allow your PLC to make a Troop rule banning portable electronics on campout for everyone except members of the PLC? If BSA is serious about this fitness standards, apply them to the office buildings in Irving first and lead by example.

 

c) Fitness standards are a good thing. BMI tables are neither fitness standards nor a good thing. They were never intended for what they're being used for today, aren't appropriate for it, and no responsible organization ought to be promoting their use. Even if you can tease out a justification for them, even if BSA offers a Body Fat Pct workaround, it's still wrong to adopt broken standards like BMI. Instead of ht/wt tables, part C should just ask the doctor to state whether the person has any unusual risk factors for engaging in strenous activity more that 30 minutes from medical help.

 

d) If BSA really, really wants to promote fitness, how about helping to establish real, practical fitness standards for youths and adults? Standards that measure actual fitness and give everyone healthy goals to attain (NOTE: "weigh X pounds based on Y height" is not a healthy goal - it's random quackery).

 

 

[SeattlePioneer]

I probably wouldn't qualify under the new standards ---- too much of a spare tire these days quite frankly, despite running two miles/day.

 

On the positive side, a Troop I was in a few years ago had the Scoutmaster along on a moderate backpack trip, and he struggled mightily to do the miles to the camp site. That was probably a significant health risk for him --- in his late 40s probably and out of condition/lard butt.

 

There is an argument FOR screening out over weight, out of condition people ----adult leaders in particular perhaps.

 

It's probably more regrettable to screen out youth who are over weight and out of condition.

[Eagle007]

Let's take turns lifting each other on sretchers into the backs of ambulances. I bet there would be a lot of peer pressure for each other to lose the extra spare tires.

 

After working in EMS for several years, I automatically size people up when I walk into a room. Without trying to sound ugly, I think to myself, I would hate to have to pick that person up on a stretcher if they went down. I also look in the mirror when I have those thoughts.

 

When the side rails on a stretcher won't lock in the upright position because you are too large, you might want to seriously re-evaluate the spare tire situation.

[JMHawkins]

Let's take turns lifting each other on sretchers into the backs of ambulances. I bet there would be a lot of peer pressure for each other to lose the extra spare tires.

 

Excellent idea, but one to handle at the unit level, not National.

 

I'm not a small guy. I'm 6'4" and about 260. I could stand to lose a little weight, but 15 years ago when I was in great shape (running 25+ miles a week, basketball leagues 3 nights a week, gym every day, etc) I still weighed 240. I know nobody is going to want to pack me out of somewhere. On the other hand, I'm in a better position to pack someone else out if they need it. Tradeoffs, eh?

 

My family has a tendency to "fill out" late. I was about 190lbs when I was 21, and I did a lot of rock climbing. By 25, I was up to 240 and I stopped climbing cause I just didn't like how much stress I put on the equipment, the protection, my belaying partner, etc. So yeah, you gotta be smart about things. How do you get out of somewhere if you break your leg is a good question to ask. But that's not what the BMI charts are about, is it?