Local and National Tour Permits Obsolete

[Eagle92]

I NEED TO CORRECT MY LAST POST:

 

OA IS NOW INCLUDED ON THE FORM

 

All caps, bold and underlining is for emphasis on the fact that I mispelled NOW and could not edit when I noticed it.

 

Not screaming at all folks (This message has been edited by eagle92)

[moosetracker]

I read that, but also that the new Tour Planning Worksheet is not needed unless out of council..

 

Beav & I have had this discussion. I know from him that as long as there are other things showing it is a BSA activity you can prove it is official, even if you don't do the TP or Worksheet.. It doesn't fly with out COR.

 

I suppose since the worksheet doesn't need to be processed except for out of council events, my son can just continue to pass them in the night before an event, and not get any confirmation, but know they are covered anyway, because they are in council.

 

And with the Tour worksheet passed in, the COR will be happy too.

 

Let's just hope it can be sent via email in our council. The only thing now will be trying to get it to council physically with 1 day before the trip (forget the 3 week leeway)..

[Lisabob]

the problem you are describing, moose, is not that your COR requires the form. The problem is (as you state) that the troop can't plan for beans.

 

The solution, therefore, is not to convince the COR to change her mind. The solution is for someone to lean on the troop to learn to plan. Maybe even the COR could play a useful role here.

[moosetracker]

Yeah! That too..

 

My son & husband have tried to lean on the troop, then the SM started whining and the COR told them not to get the SM all in a tissy...

 

So we got a troop that can't plan for beans, but need to do the tour permit..

[Eagle732]

CPR AND AED trained adult required for boating and climbing.

OK, I'm already AED trained, what am I going to use for an AED?! Jumper cables and the car battery that I'm carrying in my kayak or my rope bag?!

 

More required training, more expense and more burdens on the adult leaders.

For now first aid and wilderness first aid are "recommended". Any bets on how long before that's mandatory too?

 

I'm all for training but when is enough, enough. It sure is easy for some Professional Scouter to sit in his cushy office and make up more rules without thinking about the time, money and effort it costs us volunteers. The last I checked, CPR/AED and First Aid classes cost money, and they ain't cheap.

 

Hey, maybe we'll be able to do them online.

[Eagle92]

'732,

 

There are some agreements with ARC and others for the BSA to provide low cost options to those classes, basically covering the cost of supplies needed, if you can get the volunteers to teach it.

 

The concern I have is getting folks to take the class. I'm an AHA certified CPR and FA instructor, and I had no one interested in taking the course when I offered. Cost would have been about $20 for to cover books, disposable ventilation tubes, and certification cards. I had no takers.

 

What you may see is what some camps are doing: offering these classes during summer camp.

[NealOnWheels]

Another conflict...

 

The GSSS allows one registered leader and one parent.

 

This new form requires two registered leaders.

 

Is this changing or is it a misprint???

[FScouter]

Where does the form say two registered leaders are required?

[John-in-KC]

From the form:

Leadership and Youth Protection Training: Boy Scouts of America policy requires at least two adult leaders on all BSA activities. Coed Venturing crews must have both male and female leaders older than 21 for overnight activities. All registered adults must have completed BSA Youth Protection training. At least one registered adult who has completed BSA Youth Protection training must be present at all events and activities. Youth Protection training is valid for two years from the

date completed.

Adult leader responsible for this group (must be at least 21 years old):

Name ____________________________________ Age _______ Scouting position _________________ Expiration date ___________________

Address___________________________________________________________________________________ Member No. _________________

City __________________________________________________________ State _______________ Zip code ____________________________

Phone _______________________________ E-mail ___________________________________ Youth Protection training date ______________

Assistant adult leader name(s) (minimum age 18, or 21 for Venturing crews):

Name ____________________________________ Age _______ Scouting position _________________ Expiration date ___________________

Address___________________________________________________________________________________ Member No. _________________

City __________________________________________________________ State _______________ Zip code ____________________________

Phone _______________________________ E-mail ___________________________________ Youth Protection training date ______________

[John-in-KC]

Neal,

 

I am not a risk manager, and I've not stayed at Holiday Inn Express this week, but ...

 

I would expect G2SS will be brought up to this new standard at some point in the future.

[JMHawkins]

Biggest problem I can see is the need for Vehicle/Driver info three weeks out. If a troop uses parents to get kids to the trailhead...

 

I guess you just get every potential volunteer parent driver's vehicle info at the begining of the year, put 'em all down on the TP, and then figure out who's actually driving closer to the event.

[Eagle732]

JM, That's exactly what we do. The drivers list attached to the TP and highlight any name that could possibly be driving.

Just like with the rest of the BS we just work around it so we can take the boys camping.

Council will need to start tracking and asking for proof of CPR/AED, First Aid etc.

 

[shortridge]

The way I read it, unregistered parents or other adults can still attend in the adult leader role, alongside a registered adult. Here how I parse it the info that John quoted:

 

- Two adult leaders are required

- All registered adults must have completed YPT

- At least one registered adult who has completed YPT must be present

 

If adult leaders were synonymous with registered adults, then the requirement for at least one registered adult who has completed YPT would be unnecessary.

[T2Eagle]

I think Shortridge is right on the interpretation.

 

Sloppy drafting by the author (not unusual in the BSA).

[Beavah]

Yah, folks, a form is just a form, eh? It's paperwork, not policy.

 

Nuthin' has changed in BSA policy or program guidance beyond the reporting form. Even though the dang thing keeps gettin' longer, they're reducing the reportin' requirement to save on staff time. No more national tour permits approved by the regional office. Explicit guidance that tour plans should only be used for longer trips or trips with special technical risks, not for everything.

 

Nothing else changes. Two-deep is still defined the same way: one registered adult with current YPT, one other (possibly non-registered) adult, one of 'em over 21. Patrol outings are still allowed. Insurance is still the same. Your council will probably still handle these on the same timeline you're used to, which will be less than 21 days because nobody ever gets the paperwork together that far out.

 

It's just a form, folks. Take a deep breath and then just keep on scoutin' like you're used to.

 

Yah, like everything, we can roll our eyes at some of da stuff, eh? Nobody carries AEDs, CPR on a victim of a rock climbing accident is goin' to be useless, and it should be the BSA providing the service of tracking training dates to the units, not vice versa. The thing ain't been edited all that well. So what else is new? Don't let it waste any (more) of your precious scoutin' time.

 

Beavah