Local and National Tour Permits Obsolete

[ScoutNut]

It looks like the Tour Planning Worksheet will be replacing the National and Local Tour Permits.

 

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/680-014_fillable.pdf

 

The differences are -

 

One form for all types of tours.

 

It will no longer have to be approved at the regional level, just at the council level.

 

The council keeps the planning worksheet, and returns the plan portion to the unit.

 

It is a fillable pdf that is printed on 8.5x11. No more legal sizes to mess with.

 

A unit contact who is not on the trip must be included.

 

You will now need 3 weeks advance notice instead of 2 weeks.

 

There is now a list of defined instances when a plan must be filed. However, "At council's request" is the final reason, so councils can add more instances where they require a plan.

 

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/TourPlanFAQ.aspx

 

The current Tour Permits are still listed on the National Council Forms page, so this still seems to be in transition.

 

[Eagle732]

21 days instead of 14 for TP's out of council? Hope our council doesn't hold us to that.

 

Heck our meeting hall is out of council (by about 1/4 mile)! and most of our camping is done out of council.

 

Most of our drivers are parents of Scouts attending and we usually don't get a commitment from the Scouts until the week before. Even then the roster can change until the time we leave. Do they really think a boy run program can plan that far in advance?

 

Non- attending point of contact is good info to know.

In council permits not needed is good (unless your doing something fun like canoeing, climbing, etc.)

 

We'll continue submitting permits as usual. Guessing who's driving and how many are going then submitting the best information we have in the time requested.

 

[Lisabob]

3 weeks is a bit long for just a typical camping weekend trip, but the other changes make sense. Thank goodness this got taken away from regional offices because THAT was a nightmare, at least in central region.

 

For those who live far away - there is always the USPS.

[RememberSchiff]

Old

Leadership and Youth Protection Training: Boy Scouts of America policy requires at least two adult leaders on all camping trips and tours.

- 2 pages long

- 2 week lead time

 

New

"Leadership and Youth Protection Training: Boy Scouts of America policy requires at least two adult leaders on all BSA activities.

Unauthorized and Restricted Activities: The BSAs general liability policy provides coverage for bodily injury or property damage that is made and arises out of an official Scouting activity as defined by the Guide to Safe Scouting. Volunteers, units, chartered organizations, and local councils that engage in unauthorized activities are jeopardizing their insurance coverage. PLEASE DO NOT PUT YOURSELF AT RISK

- 4 pages long but larger font.

- 3 week lead time

- No more pledge to get scouts to their religious services!

 

More lawyering with "official BSA activities" will likely mean fewer "official BSA activities".

 

Let's have a family outing and go play laser tag.

 

My $0.02

[The Blancmange]

 

"Leadership and Youth Protection Training: Boy Scouts of America policy requires at least two adult leaders on all BSA activities.

This would appear to be the much rumored ban on patrol activities.

[Eagle92]

 

 

In reference to policies what do we follow, the new Tour Planning Sheet that appears to do away with patrol camping, or the G2SS which gets updated electronically every quarter, and hence more current, and allows it?

[Eagle92]

I've noticed the OA is not included on this permit.

[FScouter]

Looks good to me - not required on ALL trips and outings, only out of council or over 500 miles or specific higher risk activities. The current TP is required on ALL outings. Patrol activities is not listed, thus they would continue to be exempt.

 

I would say that any troop that isn't planning a trip more that 3 weeks out has bigger problems than filling out a TP. By then you ought to know where you're going and who the leaders are. Exact numbers is not required. No roster is required.

 

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/TourPlanFAQ.aspx

[The Blancmange]

 

Looks good to me - not required on ALL trips and outings, only out of council or over 500 miles or specific higher risk activities.

It might sound that way until you look at the last item in the list of circumstances where the new plan is required - "At a council's request."

That would appear to allow to continue the current practice in many councils - requiring them on any activity which is not held at the regular meeting place.

[John-in-KC]

Everyone: Read the instructions. Trips to NOAC and any regionally sponsored event are required submissions.

 

I have alerted my District Director, and I'm asking for time as part of the next Roundtable opening. I've also asked him to get guidance for me. I will post the gist of his guidance when I get it, fwiw. I've specifically asked about independent Patrol camping by Boy Scouts.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[FScouter]

"Council's request..."

This is nothing new. The council has always had the right to require tour permits for anything and everything.

 

The point is, this new tour plan is not some onerous and oppressive new regulation designed to roadblock units from doing activities. Patrol camping is not banned. No activity is banned by this.

 

Since a TP is not required by BSA for an in-council outing, that would seem to be cause for rejoicing, not grumbling.

[moosetracker]

*Sigh* - our COR insist on tour permits for EVERY outing while our council's policy was only events that were outside the city/town of your meeting place..

 

At the same time our current SM can't organize enough info to be able to get the tour permit sent into council until about 10pm the thursday night before the event leaving on the next day or that Saturday..

 

So is this new tour permit going to be available to fill out electronically still?. The only way my son got the tour permit to council on Thurs. before the next day outing was to come home from the troop meeting and fill it out before going to bed that night. I doubt he will be able to drive to Council that Friday..

 

Also he will be grumbling more because if it is not needed for in Council trips, 99.9 % of the trips they take will be in-council.. So all that work will be unnecessary anyway.

 

So does that mean patrol outings are still OK as long as the outing is within the Council's borders?

[John-in-KC]

Moose,

 

It is fillable and savable: I just emailed a copy of the basic sheet to my District Director, District Commish, and RT commish.

 

Now, will your Council permit electronic filings? That's their decision, but I sure hope so in my Council.

 

As far as your COR requiring it every time, Brava!!!!! Using the process of planning the outing is perhaps more important than the actual paperwork.

[moosetracker]

Thing is our troop is one that can't plan for beans.. Like I said SM does not require any adult leaders or scouts to confirm they are going, until the Thursday troop meeting before the event. He figures it is to hard for them. This means no knowledge of the adults going, the number of scouts going, who will be driving, cost of event (if there is a discount for groups of x amount of people).. Two weeks in advance my son may have where they are going.. Three weeks probably would even give him that information.

 

COR knows there is no planning. Also knows that by the time my son files the TP there is slim to none hope of seeing confirmation for it.

 

She doesn't do it to force them to plan, she does it for fear that the BSA insurance will not cover the event leaving the CO vulnerable.. No amount of telling her that this is not the case will convince her otherwise.

[John-in-KC]

From the form (page 2):

 

Unauthorized and Restricted Activities: The BSAs general liability policy provides coverage for bodily injury or property damage that is

made and arises out of an official Scouting activity as defined by the Guide to Safe Scouting. Volunteers, units, chartered organizations, and local councils that engage in unauthorized activities are jeopardizing their insurance coverage. PLEASE DO NOT PUT YOURSELF AT RISK.

 

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