Dealing with an inactive committee chair

[BadenP]

83

 

Not accusing, but I have been part of two units where the CM and SM ran them like their personal boot camps, the kids had no fun and the parents got angry and left and both units went under, which in these cases was for the best. Yes, CO's can be the uninvolved kind that say do what you want which is okay if the unit is not run like a dictatorship but by a committee who know their jobs and work like a team with the CM, otherwise all you wind up with is chaos.

[NJCubScouter]

I agree with Eagledad and Twocubdad. In this case it is probably better to work within the situation you have been handed rather than to rock the boat. Of course you need to get the COR's approval to appoint a new assistant cubmaster(s), but I assume he is not going to have a problem with it if he is a hands-off COR/CC. Be up-front with him and tell he that the new ACM is going to be helping you with some of the administrative stuff, recruiting new volunteers, etc. If he has a problem with that, then you know you have a bigger problem than just a hands-off COR/CC, because then you have someone who will neither do the CC job nor allow other people (aside from you) to do any of it. At that point you might have to tell the COR/CC, "I can't do this job like this", and be prepared for the possible consequences, which include him giving in, but also include you not being CM anymore. But from the way you are describing this, my guess he is just going to sign the leader application for your new ACM.

 

My original thought before reading Eagledad's post was that your newly recruited leader be registered as a Committee Member, and be the de facto CC instead of you, but that might seem a little threatening to your COR/CC. In fact, if he suddenly decided to go by the book, his reaction to the appointment of the new ACM might be that the person should instead be a Committee Member, and "report" to him as the CC. If that were to happen, it could be a good thing, as it could mean the CC was re-engaging with the pack to some extent. Or he could just want someone else to do the CC job while he keeps the title. If he has been around forever and is considered such a "fixture" in the community, maybe that isn't such a bad thing for a couple years until he decides to "retire." But of course it requires that you find someone who is willing to do the job without the title.

[SeattlePioneer]

Interesting thread.

 

 

You might find my recent thread on building an effective committee interesting:

 

http://www.scouter.com/Forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=301351

 

 

 

I'd say you have an unusually capable Chartered Organization Rep, but someone who should not be Committee Chair any longer.

 

I'd be looking for the right person to be Committee Chair, have them fill out the adult leader application for that position and ask your COR to sign the application.

 

You have proven that he doesn't want to carry out the duties of the CC, but you haven't given him the opportunity to sign on to filling the position with someone willing to do the job.

 

I wouldn't underestimate the value of someone with a long term conmmitment to the program either. I'd be looking for ways to recognize that person's service to the pack. You want to keep him as COR, in my opinion.

 

And you are, of course, perfectly correct to want an effective committee to support you as Cubmaster. The "Cubmaster Who Does Everything" is a lousy and abusive experience.

 

So who is the BEST candidate to be CC? Talk to that person and ask them to agree to help. Have them sign the Adult application and then have a sit-down with the COR and ask him to sign the application.

 

Why would he refuse? He gets to keep doing the things that he already does and that he is valuable doing. You aren't going to replace him in any significant way.

 

 

That's what I'd try, anyway.

 

 

[Stosh]

As I said originally, do your own thing so as to deliver the program to the boys. Get volunteers and organize oneself into a "functional" committee regardless of what's on paper. As soon as someone asks questions just go back to the paper and say this is how it works and then any honorary people are just that, looking good on paper.

 

As long as the boys get a high quality program with dedicated adults stepping up and doing the work, then it doesn't make a bit of difference who's garnering up all the credit.

 

Sometimes being right isn't always what's in the best interest of the boys. You might have 8 people all listed on paper as MC's, and one non-functioning CC. Okay one of the 8 is functionally really the chair and goes to the CC every time they need a signature for a new leader.

 

Is the battle really necessary to have all the paper work adjusted so as to embarrass some ancient Scouter who doesn't show up for meetings anymore?

 

I do this with my boys all the time and there's never any problem. None of them wear POR patches and leadership rotates around depending on the interest and availability of any of the boys. Continuity? It isn't necessary. After a while all the boys get good at all the positions and then things get done quickly and efficiently.

 

If the CC drops the ball, there should be 3-4 others on the committee that are good enough that they can pick it up and run with it for a month or two. Pass around the responsibilities among the committee members and before you know it any of them could do a fairly good job as CC and the committee functions just fine. Everyone ends up helping everyone else and no one gets their nose out of joint.

 

Your mileage may vary,

 

Stosh

[moosetracker]

the way seattle puts it sounds like he is just saying to evict him from CC hand them the papers and ask them to sign it and replace themselves..

 

Somewhere in there though I see valid points.. I just don't know how you get them to see them.. COR is THE top dog position other then IH who normally you don't have need to communicate with at all. I am just wondering if your COR realizes it. Giving up the CC position does nothing to usurp his/her powers or status as it is a position that report to the COR..

 

But, to get someone who is set in their ways to wake up and smell the coffee, (in a nice way).. That is what is the question.. To get them to see they are valued as COR as you try to pull the other job away from them, and not make them feel they are being manipulated, or that you are holding a "coup".. That is the tricky thing & if they are to far gone to wake up to coffee, then finding someone to do the job they should be doing under a title of ACM.. That may be the only way to go..

 

There are troops that do the same thing, they have many many ASM positions and these positions take care of Advancement, inventory, finances etc.. Jobs that should be at the committee level, but are not.. Could be because of an inactive CC they can not motivate (like your situation), or could be because the SM wants control of everything and found a way to head Program & committee.. You just don't know unless you ask the story behind the structure of the unit.

[83Eagle]

Is the battle really necessary to have all the paper work adjusted so as to embarrass some ancient Scouter who doesn't show up for meetings anymore?

 

Definitely not. I'm thinking let sleeping dogs lie. Work around the structure but within the rules and put in place people to make my role managable, improve the program for the boys and increase the amount of stuff we can do, while encouraging a culture of involvement that will make things easier for my successor. That may be the best way to go. Just present the CC with a token of appreciation and sincere thanks at the Blue & Gold and don't expect to see her again until next year unless I need an adult app signed.

[SeattlePioneer]

Why is asking the COR to sign up a new CC, work he has been invited to do and hasn't done a "battle"?

 

No one really knows he wouldn't be glad to do that.

[moosetracker]

SP - Because the COR / CC likes the title of being the COR / CC and has no interest in replacing someone else into the CC position. It is not a job he knows he must do but just hasn't gotten around to it, He sees it as his job, one he likes (at least in title) and one he sees no need to get someone else to do.

[NJCubScouter]

"She", 83Eagle says in his most recent post. I said "he" in my post as well. It's funny, I usually say "he or she" when I don't know, but for some reason when reading the initial post I got this impression of the CC/COR being a grizzled old guy who was a Scout "back in the day" and has now been a Scouter so long that he has become an institution in the community. Now I have gone back and read the initial post, and realized that 83Eagle never said "he." Of course, a woman can be an institution too.

[Eamonn]

83Eagle,

What Committee member positions are filled?

Is there a Committee?

Back when I became a CM, the Pack didn't have a Committee.

Before I came on board, the CM was very much a one woman show.

She called meetings when she felt there was a need and organized fund raisers when she wanted. -Which in my opinion was all to often! But that' another story.

The Pack had been around for a very long time, chartered by the local R/C Church which I attend.

As with many R/C Churches Parish Priests come and they go. Some are really into Scouts and Scouting (Like the fellow we have now.) While others seem to not really understand that the Pack is as much part of the Church as the choir or they just don't care. I liked the PP we had when I became CM, but he wasn't interested in any of the youth programs and couldn't care less about the Pack.

The COR was a nice fellow, he was one of the leaders of the church youth group. He had at one time served as a Webelos Scout Den Leader, until his son quit Cub Scouting.

Sadly he had only ever served under the out going CM and thought that the way she did things was the way things should be done.

Then along came me!

I very much wanted to do things by the book and before long we were having monthly leaders meeting.

I recruited all the committee members.

That first year we went through 3 Committee Chairs.

But we pressed on.

By the end of year two we had a a great set of Den Leaders and a working Pack Management Committee.

The Pack grew and we became the model for other Packs in the District.

I had a great ACM who wanted to be CM.

I was asked to serve as District Commissioner, which I did.

Much as it might pain me to admit it. The new CM did a better job than I had.

His style of leadership was .. A little more regimental than mine. But the Pack continued to grow. More Dens, more Den Leaders and a wonderful committee.

The new CM moved on to Boy Scouts, resurrecting the Church Troop that had been dormant for a good many years. His ACM took on the Pack. This new CM did a fair job. But soon the leaders meeting and the Pack Management Committee became one meeting with only about half the Den Leaders and half the Committee attending.

In time he moved on to the Troop.

The new CM was a lovely Lady, but soon things went back to what they had been before. - Her One Woman Show.

Things really fell apart when she and her husband split and she quit.

There was no Committee.

I met with the person who was listed as he Pack Chair. She said that she'd been told that she didn't have to do anything.

The Pack which once had almost 100 members has now folded.

 

I was in better shape than you are! At least I didn't have anyone in my way when I went about starting a Pack Committee.

If I were you I think I'd call the District Commissioner and set up a meeting with him and the Unit Commissioner, if you have one.

The Commissioner Staff are there for situations like this and with any luck they might be able to sort things out.

Good Luck.

Eamonn.

[ScoutNut]

Maybe I missed it, but I do not remember reading that 83's CC/COR was intent on keeping both titles.

 

What has to be done first, is for 83 to have a pleasant little chat with the COR/CC over coffee or some such. Find out how she feels about holding both the CC, and the COR positions. Let her know that you have new parents who are itching to help out, and that you could really use their help on the Committee. Stress the importance of her COR position, and that, if she is willing, having an enthusiastic parent as CC can only help the unit.

 

If she does not want to give up the position of CC, that is fine too. There is still no need to create false committees, or pretend positions, in order to fool her.

 

If your COR/CC has never turned down an application to date, why would you think she would start now? Simply tell your COR/CC that you need help, and the more active parents you can get registered, the better the Pack will run.

 

Register an Assistant Cubmaster, and as many Committee Members as you can get. Give the Asst CM the CC's jobs that you have been doing. Give the new Committee Members whatever other jobs there are that need doing.

 

It should be pretty easy to explain to any future CM, Asst CM, or Committee Members, what their jobs are.

 

Your COR/CC can still be invited to all Pack Leaders Meetings, and Pack Meetings. I doubt she will feel insulted by seeing new volunteers helping the Pack go, and grow.

[Oak Tree]

Yes, I'm with the others. I don't see any harm in having the hands off COR/CC. If they want to continue with both roles, I would appoint someone who understands the situation to the committee and tell them that they are the committee vice-chairman, or some such title. You could call it ACM if that works better for you, but I'd go the route of trying to get a functioning committee.

 

A well-respected figurehead could be an asset.

[BadenP]

I think many of you here have missed the point, if 83Eagle decides to plan a coup and the current CC/COR finds out and wants the job then he/she would be within her rights as COR to dismiss 83 and replace him with a new CM. Even if she doesn't want to keep the job if she feels threatened by 83 she could still dismiss him as her last official act, in either case it will be bad news for 83. I agree that the best course of action for 83 is to meet with him/her find out what her plans are before he attempts to make any changes. Like it or not the power lies with the COR not the CM and council will side with the COR if it gets that far. You know the old saying "We can do this the easy way or the hard way, you choose."

[ScoutNut]

BadenP, I think you are missing the point. 83Eagle has stated, repeatedly, that he is not starting any coup. He does not want to take over. What he wants is help. He has open positions that he wants to fill.

 

The current CC/COR is not actually doing the job of the CC. In the past the Cubmaster has done both the CM's job, and the CC's job. The CM no longer wants to do both jobs.

 

If the CC/COR wants to continue to have the title of CC, that is fine. But the Pack still needs help in order to be able to run.

 

The CC has had no problem for many years with the CM doing the things the CC should be doing. Why should the CC have a problem with the Pack recruiting more volunteers to take on some of the duties that the CM needs help with?

[BadenP]

ScoutNut

 

Look if thats what 83's intent is thats fine, reading his posts though it seems like he wants to have all the power in the pack reserved for the CM which is not a healthy situation for any pack. If he is trying to build a team to help him run the pack fine, but if his goal is to select candidates who will do only what he wants then thats a problem. 83's posts seem to lean toward the later situation.