Recruiting and Retaining Hispanic Youth

[moosetracker]

Clemlaw - exactly what I was saying somewhere in my post.. Who are these BSA soccer teams going to play against anyway? Other BSA soccer teams? Where will they play? the parking lot of their CO, or do they need to rent the time on somebody elses playing field?

 

It is like wanting pizza and choosing McDonalds McPizza instead of the pizza shop up the road.. Which would you want?.. BSA can only serve McPizza..

 

Look at all the work the Venturing Crews are doing to get recognized and they are not that far from traditional scouting.. But these are filled with people who want the change and will fight for the recognition.

 

If this BSA soccer is not being driven by the people it will serve, how will they weather the fact they need to fight for recognition? And from I fear alot more negativity then the Venturing crews ever faced?

 

Do they really have the desire to do so for BSA Soccer (McPizza).. When they can get a well run, well organized soccer organization down the street who has been up and running for years and well known and well respected..

 

Meanwhile, BSA will loose the reputation they have of providing a great outdoor program, and gain the reputation of desperatly doing anything to recruite kids and doing it poorly..

[DeanRx]

The unfortunate truth is that when you try to morph yourself to please everyone, you end up pleasing no one.

 

We have hispanic youth in our pack, we have other ethnic backgrounds as well - its a non-issue as far as I'm concerned.

 

Trouble is - you start printing forms in Spanish, then how do you respond when a French, German, or Phillipino family shows up at the next recruitment? Opps - need more forms in more languages! Its a never ending cycle.

 

Trouble is - I had two fairly prominent usually generous families DROP their FOS donations last year when they found out (from the council rep that was at the meeting) that a significnt portion of this years (FY 2010) FOS donations had been earmarked to fund start up soccer programs within the district / council that served only neighborhoods OUTSIDE of our immediate area - instead of going to fund projects and upkeep at the local council camp (like had been used in years past) that would serve the entire council.

 

Trouble is - its easy to get a kid to sign up. But if the child has a language barrier of any type, they are not likely to stick around. If their parents have a language barrier, they might fill out a biligual form, but they will not stick around very long. If the parent(s) do not have an SSN (or even if they do) they are not likely to fill out a leader application if they in any way suspect it could lead to them being looked at by authorities with regards to immigration status. If the family has little to no disposable income, then you either turn the unit into a fund raising machine to cover participation costs OR you skim funds from the "have" units and districts to the "have not" units / disctricts to subsidize the later - sorry folks scouting is not free.

 

This is probably a tangent to another thread (one that has been discussed on here before), but if Mr. Mazzuca is looking for ways to increase the rosters - I'd suggest a repeal on the atheist and gay bans as a means to do greater good than to target hispanic youth with before / after school soccer programs.

 

The repeal of those two policies would open the BSA up to many more youth, while at the same time making the BSA eligible for public land use and favored rental agreements once again. Additionally, it would better allign the BSA with widely held secular beliefs in non-discriminatory practices, thus reopenning the doors to many of the corporate donation $ that have dried up in the last decade due to some major corporations not wanting to touch BSA becuase of their admit policies.

 

Youth leave scouting or do not join because of lack of ADVENTURE. How many scout camps have been closed or public lands no longer availible to BSA at greatly reduced rates or 100 year leases for $1/year because of this policy stance? My own council's offices are in a delapidated state b/c they sit on public land and the ongoing court battle of land use of a "discriminatory" policy in BSA. The Girl Scouts next door just remodeled two years ago and have fabulous accomodations, while the BSA looks like crap to the casual observer.

 

If Austin would FIX that policy blunder - then they would have PLENTY of money freed up to court whatever minority group they want.

 

However, I personally believe this does not allign with the conservative, Christian partnership BSA has with major religious organizations within the USA (namely the LDS and to a lesser extent the Catholic Church). Therefore, we are not likely to see a deviation from the set course anytime soon.

 

The hispanic youth are a good target for Mazzuca, because if you bring them in with any significant numbers, it strengthens the overall tie with the Catholic Church, plain and simple.

 

We have sections of the USA with extremely heavy Asian immigrant populations. Why not an extended effort to target asians into BSA? They are not represented in great numbers from what I have seen. However, asian families (while some are Christian) are more likely to be affiliated with either Buddist, Hindu and to a lesser extent Muslim faiths. BSA does not have (to my knowledge) any religious leaders from these faiths on their national governing board - the same cannot be said for LDS and Catholic faiths.

 

I am not usually a conspiracy type guy, but the more I research and ask quesitons at the district and council levels, the more I've become convinced the push for hispanic youth is not only to drive membership numbers, but to also bolster support and relations between BSA national and the Catholic church.

[SeattlePioneer]

Dean,

 

 

There is no "Asian" ethnic group. People from Asia are divided into hundreds of ethnic and language groups.

 

If you go back and read the post opening this thread you wont find references to it being motivated by a cabal of Catholic and LDS church leaders --- I'm a district volunteer trying to save a failing unit in an area with a heavy Spanish immigrant population.

 

Your conspiracy theories are inappropriate and distracting for this thread.

[moosetracker]

Oh!.. Huh!.. I thought this was more towards your roll as a District Membership personage.. And it is about trying to get more Hispanic youth to register and improve their retention rate within your entire district..? And about doing round Tables in February with this purpose in mind.. And I hadn't caught it on first read, but I guess some other guy is doing the round table info-mercials and he is from the Soccer crap program.. (Which is why you can't tell him to kick the soccer ball out and work with them with what they want, which is our normal program..)..

 

I didn't think it was about one failing unit..

 

Anyway.. Tell him Numero uno is to kick the soccer ball out of the program.. It will save him alot of grief.. I would love to be a fly on the wall for your round table, because if someone came to my round table to push Soccer on me, I would walk.. And I'm the District Training Chair. I believe I would be in a traffic jam out the door, unless others were pre-warned of what the talk was about, and just never showed up.

 

Yet if he was there to talk about welcoming different cultures into our program, I would stay and listen with an open mind.

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello moosetracker,

 

Well, I wear several different hats and sometimes i have to put my hand on my head to try to figure out which one I'm wearing!

 

 

When I discover problems with my Cub Scout Pack, I look for ways to use the Cub Scout Roundtable and my position as District Membership chair to address those issues. That way the program of the Roundtable and Membership Committee bubbles up from the needs of one or more units in the district rather than coming down from on high.

 

I suspect that might meet with your approval.

 

So when I noticed I and my pack were doing a lousy job of recruiting and retaining hispanic youth, I could review what I've seen at other recruiting nights I attend as District Membership Chair ---- no one else seems to be doing anything better.

 

Since everyone is doing a lousy job, I looked around for help to figure out what to do and how to improve the performance of our units in this area. My opening effort in that is the February Rountable program.

 

I also sent my opening post to our Council Vice President --Membership, who I work with. We might get things rolling at a council level to address issues at the Scout Shop, add this kind of discussion at our Council Program and Training Conference and generally start trying to decide what to do and get started doing it.

 

I know the Soccer and Scouting DE, and he is a capable person doing what the council wants him to do. When I called him to ask him to give up an evening to talk to our Roundtable he was glad to do so. That makes him a top notch guy in my book.

 

 

Our council has done Soccer and Scouting for five years or so. It used to be run out of my district by that Latino District Executive who managed just that program. A year or two ago it was removed from our district and made a council wide program.

 

The program used to have a separate meeting on Roundtable nights and there were always quite a few Hispanic adults there, and they pretty much always had a nice spread of food and looked like they were having a nice time as adults, planning their program.

 

I can't evaluate the program because I've never seen it in action. They have a number of teams that meet and play at regular soccer fields and they incorporate the Cub Scout Promise and Law of the Pack and such into their program.

 

Personally, I have no problems with it. They are adapting the Cub Scout program to meet the needs and interests of boys and families ---- I wish them the best!

 

 

 

[Eagle92]

Here's my opinion.

 

1) Soccer and Scouting is not a good idea. We already have varsity teams and only the LDS wards use them to my knowledge. Outside the LDS, nobody uses the program, or even know about it, and they are probably the model; for Soccer and Scouting since varsity combines sports and scouting. heck I've heard anecdotal stuff saying it's a complete flop. And if Scouting is so key, then why " Soccer and Scouting" and not the other way around?

 

2) others have pointed out the expense of having multilingual information. It does cost money that could be spent elsewhere. heck I have seen literature from a non-profit in the UK ask in a newsletter if they could stick to English only instead of the 5-7 languages it was printed in, otherwise they may have to discontinue the newsletter in order to keep programs running.

 

3) My expereince is that folks who do not want to integrate into US society will not unless forced to. So trying to recruit them is pointless. Saw that with my sister-in-law's mother who would not speak English unless absolutely had to. BUT those who do want to integrate WILL join. Saw that with one family last year.

 

4) THE BSA IS KNOWN FOR THE OUTDOORS AND "SCOUTING IS OUTING;" IF WE DON'T DELIVER THE PROMISE PEOPLE WILL LEAVE. ( caps for emphasis). I am embarrassed to say it, but I discovered that my Hispanic youth quit b/c we didn't go in the outdoors enough. And this was coming from a pack that had 2 campouts, and 2 den outdoor trips ( 3rd campout was cancelled due to water problems at the camp)last year, and had 3 camp outs in a 5 week period this year so far!

 

WE MUST KEEP OUR FOCUS ON KEEPING THE 'OUTING IN SCOUTING!" ( OK this time I am shouting

[SeattlePioneer]

Frankly, soccer and scouting isn't the issue.

 

 

The issue I'm raising is how to recruit and retain Hispanic youth into traditional Scouting units.

 

If we did a better job of that soccer and scouting would probably go away.

 

 

 

[moosetracker]

OK.. As long as you are going to your Cub Scout round table to talk about incorporating minorities in THEIR units, run the way the currently run THEIR units, without asking for any modification from the program they currently follow except for ways to break the language barrier.. As stated before I would stay for something like that..

 

Round table is all about talking to these people about what their concerns and needs are, not about another groups concerns and needs.. Just like the kids in our pack where everyone stateds that the pack meeting is all about the kids.. All emphisis is on Them.. Them.. Them.. Them.. Them.. Them.. Well the round Table is all about the Unit leader who is running Their unit.. What support can you give them to help their unit? What training can you give them to help their unit? What information can you pass on to them about district/Council events going on theat consern their unit?

 

If they go to a round table and center the problem around some group that has nothing to do with them then you have wasted their time..

 

My volunteers are very vocal about my wasting their time. They feel they put alot of time into the BSA program, and we should honor and respect them for it. When we waste their time they feel we just slapped them in the face.

 

I would never talk to troops about Venturing at a troop round table.. I do think it is fine that our Council will have a course on it at scouting you.. Something about "What Venturing can do for your troops" or some such.. It is an elective course, and they can choose to go, or not.. It is not being shoved down their throats while they are a captive audience.

 

As for bilingual books.. My feeling is that someone somewhere says we generate alot of money donations from the Ventureing crew due to the co-ed policy. It opened alot of doors to seek donations from new sources.. I know the majority of the Spanish/Latino group is not wealthy, but they do have support from people of their ethnicity who have had a generation or two to pull themselves up, and have become buisnessmen.. Also some who have spouses from this ethnicity.. Also I would not mind my FOS going into bilingual lititure about the traditional programs, if it was to help bring our program to a group of people who would like to integrate into my program, and could help strengthen my program.. I would not want to see a dime of it go to Soccer..

 

your district has run Soccer & Scouting for 5 years? You are practically announcing that your district is the parent of this poorly thought out program..

 

Unfortunately though, as (I think) DeanRX stated, the lack of disposable income may hurt, not help the program..

1) It will hurt in the amount of FOS the unit donates for one thing.. If 10 families all give (none who are Latino) and you collect $1000.. This is different then having 10 families give while your other 10 Latino families do not and you collect $1000.. The $1000 dollars of 10 families may make the unit goal, while the $1000 of 20 families will not.

2) It may hurt in the program you can deliver..

a) Either you need to do alot more fundraising to have the same program.. (of which kids just flock to scouting for the fundraising part).. NOT..

b) your program can not offer the events it use to, because everyone can not afford the ski trip, or the white water trip.

c) The expensive trips go on, and it is optional to the scouts who want to sign up, and the Latino family will not be able to go on all the trips, therefore will miss the best parts of the program..

(None of the 3 possibilities have a happy ending.)

 

Therefore besides discussing bilingual needs.. Ideas around the Financial needs may need to be addressed in your presentation. Otherwise, again units may not see a benefit to welcoming the these scouts into their units. They may be seen as more destructive and less beneficial to the way their unit works..

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello moosetracker,

 

 

Heh, heh! You sound EXACTLY like the person my February Roundtable is aimed at --- a leader of a traditional Scouting unit who doesn't know how to recruit and retain Hispanic Scouts, but probably needs to learn! (and I include myself in that number).

 

 

Firstly, I'll repeat again --- I'm Cubmaster for a Cub Pack in a low income area that was down to one Cub Scout two years ago and about to fail to recharter.

 

Now if had failed to recharter we wouldn't be worrying about FOS contributions, the quality of the program or watering down the program for white children, because there would be no Cub pack for anyone to join.

 

This past year's FOS drive at this pack produced reasonably good results --- the DE who made the pitch was DELIGHTED that the pack was thriving at the time and was happy with the donations he received. And had the pack failed the FOS take would have been $0.00.

 

It's not just Latino families that struggle to pay the costs of Scouting in this pack. That's an issue for a goodly number of families. We don't do expensive outings and we don't do the expensive Council camps as part of the pack program --- although I inform parents of those options and would be glad if those who could afford it took advantage of those opportunities. So far, no one has.

 

Instead I've looked for low cost but fun and quality pack activities, and we take advantage of all our district Cub Scout activities.

 

September -- harvest festival at the home of a parent where Scouts picked apples, crushed the fruit and made apple cider among other activities

 

October --- hike involving a visit to a Sea Scout base and learning something about seamanship and sea scouts. Also a hot dog roast

 

November --- district Bowling tournament

 

December ---- Pack swim during a regular family swim at a public pool

 

January ---- den outings (TV Station visit for Tiger I hear)

 

February ---- district marble tournament

 

 

and so on.

 

 

As a pack serving low income families, we gave families a choice of paying our $60 pack membership fee or selling $200 in popcorn to get a free membership. 80% sold the $200 in popcorn and a number sold quite a bit more than that.

 

If you read my opening post you'll see that one of my aims is to encourage Spanish speaking families to work together to contribute to the leadership of the pack --- such as organizing the Blue and Gold dinner for example. This would be ADDING TO the leadership base over what we have now.

 

Frankly I don't know if I can make this work. We had high turnover this past year among families, which impaired my hope that the pack would survive and prosper on it's own leadership.

 

But if we could recruit and keep more Hispanic families, that would IMPROVE not hurt the odds of surviving and thriving.

 

Our district was ASSIGNED the Soccer and Scouting program for several years along with an additional District Executive whose only task was to organize that program. It basically didn't interact with the traditional Scouting program and volunteers of the district.

 

And again I suggest that if you don't like the Soccer and Scouting program ---- fine! Learn how to effectively recruit and retain hispanic families in large number in traditional Scout units and I'm sure Councils would be glad to deep six add on Soccer and Scouting programs.

 

 

[moosetracker]

Well though I can understand the concept for your community, although my community is definately hit by the whole National recession and job lose, from what I am told NH has fared better then most other states..

 

I am sure other units in the area are affected worse then ours. We have the job loss with them refinding jobs of lesser pay, or of companies who are reducing your pay rather then seeing any chance of a pay raise in years. We have increased from maybe 1 or 2 looking for camp scholarships, to now maybe 3 to 5.. Currently NH is still 95% white population and our immigration has little with the hispanic community, more refugees from Bosnia, Sudan, Somalia etc..

 

So maybe it would be a difference of our geographical location, but our units may be looking for those ideas of "great ideas on a shoestring budget".. But not wish to give up their occasional high priced adventure.. Other units are more high priced then us, doing the Jamboree, and Philmont etc.. We have done seabase as a one time thing, with complaints by the members that the fundraisers were not worth stretching for those type of events.

 

So hispanic wouldn't even be worth discussion in our state.. Maybe discussing finding ways for the refugee population, but accept for inner city units, even that is a far stretch to even think as it having very much potential. Also we only have 3 cities that we might consider, and our inner cities might be most states small sleepy suburbian cities.. We really have absolutely no city to compare to Boston, New York, Dallas, Chicago etc..

 

Our refugees though would be great campers. Like stated of hispanics, they might not think of it as a great after school program. What with the fact they are currently being taught about stairs, and hygine, modern appliancies, in addition to the language barrier.. I am unsure if they would see the value of excelling in camping over the average white suburban scout, would increase the interest.. Maybe, they have little, and might like something they can excel in.

 

But besides language barriers our units would definately need to discuss financal problems the refugees would bring in order to figure out how to bring in such an impoverished populatation and still keeping the unit's program up to the standards they enjoy, without taxing those that have to pay for those who have not, to the point that the program is no longer enjoyable for them.

 

Packs are probably a little easier to organize on a shoe string budget more so then troops. Though some troops do it by only doing local wilderness camping / hiking and district camporees.. Others enjoy the out of state trips and high adventure camps, or high priced high adventure programs..

 

Charity and community service may be part of the program. But only a part. The main reason families join BSA is to give their sons a rewarding program. So you can add a little bit of looking out for their fellow scouts in need, but not where it takes over 50 to 80 percent of the program..

 

[Basementdweller]

We have the second largest somali community in the country or so we are told.....They simply do not participate in anything outside their ethnic community. They have their own youth soccer leagues, their own markets culture centers.

 

 

To be real honest they could care less about anyone else except their own nationality.

[DeanRx]

Seattle - I'm well aware that there are hundreds of ehtnic groups, cultures, and languages that make up what most demogarphers would describe as 'asain'. Not trying to lump them all together, just using it as an example.

 

As for the link between the Catholic Church and National's emphasis (not your OP's emphasis) on recruiting Hispanics, then WHY has this ONE ethnic group been singled out over all the other eithnic groups that make up the melting pot that is the USA?

 

1) They are one of the fastest growing minorities in the country

2) They are predominately convservative in their morals and Roman Catholic in their religious beliefs.

3) Most have a very strong sense of family and family obligation

 

These three things make this particular minority population desirable for BSA national.

 

1) Fast growing, untapped pool of youth

2) Roman Catholic religion dovetails well with BSA aims / goals - and like LDS may provide both leadership and financial support to BSA at both local and national level

3) Family obligation, family respect again dovetails well with BSA aims and goals

 

Not sure how citizenship and patriotism fits in - as a majority of this minority seems to want to embrace their new life and lifestyle in the USA, but remains very strongly connected to their former country's ideology and patriotism.

 

Don't underestimate the BSA Roman Catholic Church connection in this recruitment move. The same was said in the mid-late 80's when all the PTO's and public schools / public institutions stopped being CO's for units and the LDS nicely stepped in and began to offer their locations for meetings and charters. I'm not saying thats all bad and we can debate the pro's / con's of the no gays / no atheist rules on another thread - and the pro's/con's of a church's influence / non-influence on BSA policy on alternate threads as well.

 

However, one HUGE difference from when I was a scout to today's scouting is: 1) the public school system no longer endorses units (either as CO's and in many places as clubs that can use their facilities) and 2) The LDS has great reaching influence into the policies and procedures of BSA at the national level. Neither one of those statements were true 1 generation ago in scouting.

 

If the great hispanic recruitment of the 100th year of BSA actually does take hold, what will it do to shape the organization one generation from now? Its not a far fetched thought that the Roman Catholic Church could easily have the same influence over BSA that the LDS currently enjoys.

 

Maybe thats a good thing, maybe its not..... it sure hasn't led to more inclusive policy stances in the past 20 years and it hasn't helped BSA's ability to increase public land use. It hasn't helped BSA entice youth away from other camping organizations (i.e. Mik-o-say, Indian Guides, etc...) that offer a more inclusive, secular view with regards to admision policies.

 

I'm just saying, there apears to be more to this recruitment push than just going out and recruiting a given ethnic group of youth.

[Kudu]

DeanRx writes:

 

If the great Hispanic recruitment of the 100th year of BSA actually does take hold, what will it do to shape the organization one generation from now?

 

The Chief Scout Executive's goals are very clear: Because Hispanic families love their children so much more than white families do, it is morally wrong to ask Hispanic boys go camping:

 

"Camping is not necessarily a big thing with them, as a matter of fact in some cases it is not big at all... This marvelous passion for family in the Hispanic world. When we say 'We want to take your twelve-year-old son, but you can't come!' [long pause for dramatic effect] we're making a mistake there. We have ways to engage an entire family. We need to reach out and do those sorts of things that recognize these cultural issues and accommodate them. For example one of our pilot programs over the last recent years has been Scouting and Soccer, using the attraction of the soccer game to gather Hispanic families around...."

 

http://inquiry.net/leadership/sitting_side_by_side_with_adults.htm

 

So at long last Hispanic families offer the holy grail of Leadership Development: To move the BSA away from the Scoutcraft Adventure guaranteed to American boys by an Act of Congress, and replace it with what Cub Scouts has "for families in character development and leadership skills").

 

DeanRx writes:

 

Its not a far fetched thought that the Roman Catholic Church could easily have the same influence over BSA that the LDS currently enjoys.

 

Especially if Hispanics use the LDS model of six-boy Troops to leverage their COs' vote far beyond their actual membership numbers.

 

Setting the Catholic issue aside, the CSE's Hispanic push is a constant pounding at the need to replace the Scoutcraft program mandated by our Congressional Charter (to inculcate "the ability of boys to do things for themselves...and to teach them patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred virtues") with his fiercely anti-self-reliance alternative that replaces American individualism with programs that "accommodate" whole families.

 

http://inquiry.net/adult/bsa_federal_charter.htm

 

By definition "leadership skills" are group skills. This is why post 1972 Wood Badge has always pushed Webelos III group leadership skills as a replacement for Scoutcraft self-reliance.

 

DeanRx writes:

 

if Mr. Mazzuca is looking for ways to increase the rosters - I'd suggest a repeal on the atheist and gay bans...

 

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

 

Like it or not, liberal congregations in the United States have never embraced getting their knees dirty around a campfire once a month as a way to teach their values to the next generation.

 

Why is the opposite true in countries like Germany? I don't know.

 

There is certainly no block of liberal Sponsoring Organizations just waiting in the wings for a repeal of the BSA's membership policies. Liberal congregations had no interest in the various alternative Scouting associations that bubbled up in the 1990s and in the last decade. This has been true for a hundred years. If you examine the number of Unitarian and Universalist congregations that sponsored BSA Troops during the entire 20th century, the total number (if I remember David Peavy's research correctly) never reached a couple hundred per year. My guess is that there are more LDS Troops in the smallest county in Utah.

 

What the membership policies do offer is a "Poison Pill" (to use the corporate CEO terminology of Mazzuca's avowed heroes of Wood Badge), which at least creates the illusion that public schools are off limits to BSA recruiters.

 

DeanRx writes:

 

"Youth leave scouting or do not join because of lack of ADVENTURE.

 

Exactly.

 

If SeattlePioneer wants to recruit Hispanic youth, he could use my public school recruiting presentation. 70% of racially mixed sixth-grade audiences will sign a list (in front of their peers) asking him to call their parents so they can be a Boy Scout if (and only if) he presents Scouting as a dangerous adventure. See:

 

http://inquiry.net/adult/recruiting.htm

 

The problem, of course, is that if you promise outdoor adventure you have to deliver outdoor adventure.

 

Why waste a week of Wood Badge and a week of Junior Leader training on something as "old-fashioned" as outdoor Patrol skills?

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net/

 

 

 

[moosetracker]

There you are Kudu..

 

I was wondering what took you so long to come and give us your viewpoint on the merits of BSA Soccer..

[BadenP]

 

Dean is partially right about Mazzuca and the Catholic Church since this untapped group of boys are mainly catholic and that the hispanic culture has an obsession with soccer as we do with football. Secondly the church's would be the ideal CO's for these groups since many hispanics do not really trust organizations outside the church when supplying their personal information, the churchs could handle the chartering process in the same manner as the LDS. Since Mazzuca himself is a Catholic I am sure he would love to develop the same scouting relationship with them as the BSA has with the LDS, a personal feather in his cap. However I agree with the others here who state that if you take the scoutcraft out of scouting then it is no longer scouting just another youth sports league, something to really ponder before taking this road.