Changing Chater Organizations

[Gutterbird]

Our CO is a local, non-denominational church who is basically a CO on paper only. The COR, a minister, is there only to sign the paper work, (recharters, adult apps, etc.). We have invited them to numerous banquets and COHs and Pack Meeting but never come. When we have fund raisers we ask if they can put it in their weekly bulletin, they dont. They even told us we are on our own to find our own leaders. The only support they give is the use of the rooms and gym. I will say, they have been very accommodating when it comes to the use of the facilities. I would like to find a new CO. I have another church in town that does have the faculties and they want a troop/pack. They have had one before but it has failed because of lack of leaders. Now they can have two ready made units.

I strongly believe that this church will give us support; in addition, this church has an even greater presence in the community than the current CO. So, are we, the troop and pack committees, within our rights to seek out a new charter organization. How do we approach the current CO regarding this issue? Has anybody ever had a similar situation? Any advice?

 

[BS-87]

This sounds eerily familiar...

 

Call your DE.

[John-in-KC]

Let me start by asking a question:

 

What do YOU think your chartered partner is not doing, according to the annual charter agreement?

 

I will say this: Subject to your States' laws, your unit is wholly owned by the Chartered Partner. They can release the members ... and choose to keep the unit number/affiliation, the equipment, and the funds.

 

So... I've asked the question. I will ask two other questions:

How did you invite your IH/COR to attend? Letters, email, personal visit? Have you talked with your unit commissioner about this?

 

BTW, here is a copy of a Charter Agreement: They are easily google-able...

www.scccbsa.org/files/2006_Rechartering_AnnualCharterAgreement.pdf

 

Not the latest, but close enough for our purposes here.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[SctDad]

We are going through some of the same things. Our CO just decided monday night that they are going to start charging for the use of the large hall where we hold our pack meetings. $50 each time. Had to cancell our meeting because we cannot afford that.

 

We are a low budget pack. We sell popcorn, (at least the same people keep selling popcorn) and we try to support ourselves. The CO does not support us when it comes time to Recharter, with any membership dues, or anything along those lines. Not to mention they put on EVERY fund raiser that they do, "Help support the XXXXXXX and its youth programs like the scouts"

 

It is a little late this year to do our research and pick a good CO. We will stick it out one more year and start looking in the spring. I think I should be able to find another CO. It may just take a few months to pick the right one.

 

I will however give the CO the benefit of seeing what they are doing with all of this. Maybe they just do not understand what they are obligated to as a CO. Not my fault if they keep signing the forms. I am just getting tired of them treating us like dirt but using us as a name to get funds.

 

KC - I understand that the pack belongs to the CO, the one thing that had me confused was when you said that they could choose to release it's members. Personally, No one can tell me I have to stay with one certain pack. My registration money, I will choose my pack.

[moxieman]

SctDad, John-in-KC, was being polite by saying "They can release the members". What he means is they can choose to kick you out at any time (thus releasing you from membership).

 

I've been a "released member" before. I was active with a unit in graduate school. The entire adult leadership except myself and an undergrad student quit. We approached the IH and explained the situation. The IH chose to "release" us from our volunteer duties and dissolved the unit rather than try and recruit some new leaders. The chartered organization in question shouldn't have had any trouble--it was the largest church (10,000 families strong) in the city. They just decided they didn't want to deal with it.

 

We found a new unit for the 9 scouts to transfer to.

[BSA24]

There are basically two extremes of CO:

 

* Ignore your unit but let you use the building all you want and sign whatever you want

* Get all up in your business and start messing with how things work to a point that you won't be a "unit leader" any longer

 

I have served under both. I prefer the first. In fact, I always prefer the first over every other kind. When I had that, I thought it was a bad thing that the CO was so uninvolved. However, I now think that was actually a good thing for us.

 

Count your blessings.

[Gutterbird]

John-in-KC - "What do YOU think your chartered partner is not doing, according to the annual charter agreement?"

Bullet points 3 and 4

 

"How did you invite your IH/COR to attend? Letters, email, personal visit? Have you talked with your unit commissioner about this?"

 

We have made personal visits to the CO AND sent formal invititations for Blue and Gold. Unit Commissioner? What Unit Commissioner?

 

BSA24 - We fall under your first category, we are pretty much use the facilities and get them to sign whatever needs signing.

 

However, one of my goals is not only increase the size of our troop, but to increase the size of the scouting community within our city. I want to bring scouting back into this community which at one time had 2 troops and 4 packs. Now we have only one of each. I may be wrong, but I think that having a CO that will support the current troop/pack, provide the leadership necessary, has a good reputation with the community, and is willing to provide the resources necessary, will allow us to expand scouting throughout our community. Case in point, I was vital in getting a Venturing Crew started. I approached an organization that was well known throughout the city. I talked with their director, brought in the DE and a council suit, got them on board as a CO. They have been an active part of the Crew ever since, taking a real interest in the program, providing the support needed to grow. Gives us space in their newsletters, and lets us have fundraisers on their property. This is what I am looking for with the troop/pack. I would like to use this same CO for the troop/pack. But they do not have the space for all of us.

 

I do not think the current CO even knows what their obligations are. I have talked with them before and we all feel that the troop/pack is being held back due to the lack of a strong CO.

 

[John-in-KC]

Gutterbird,

 

Every Pack, Troop, Team and Crew in Scouting has a Unit Commissioner. If there is not a UC assigned, your Commissioner is the District or the Council Commissioner. Contact your DE and ask for contact info. Then, contact your DC/CC and ask them for support.

 

It sounds to me like you need a trio: Your DE, your Commissioner, and yourself, to pay a business call on your IH/COR. This is one of the things Professionals are supposed to do in due course, but oft-times... they don't. Your requests for help to get routine business into the church bulletin are not over the top, but the chartered partner has to be willing to play.

 

Let the DE and the Commish do the talking, up to the point where you as the CC say: We want a good and solid working relationship with you! Then close the deal.

 

Now, if they are not willing to play, someone other than you needs to help guide them down a trail that leads to release of unit number, history, equipment, and funds. If they decide to retain the equipment and charter Camp Fire instead, well, you're out all the equipment. If they decide to ask you to turn in the unit treasury, well, you'll find out how valid Scout Accounts really are ... NOT.

 

SctDad: A chartered partner can say to youth and adult members: "We are dissolving our association with BSA. We are retaining our property (unit equipment) and our funds (Troop treasury). You are free to find new units." They can also dismiss one Scouter or the whole bunch. Hopefully, they do not do this on a whim, but it's in their rights.

 

Also, $50 a meeting? That is in direct contravention of the Charter Agreement. One of the Partner's duties is to provide meeting space. You need to get ahold of your unit commissioner (see above if needed) and have a business conversation with your IH and COR.

 

I wish you all well.

[SctDad]

John

 

Also, $50 a meeting? That is in direct contravention of the Charter Agreement. One of the Partner's duties is to provide meeting space. You need to get ahold of your unit commissioner (see above if needed) and have a business conversation with your IH and COR.

 

When we started, we were able to use the main room, and we only had 7 Scouts. They also gave us a small room off of the main hall to use. Works fine for the small numbers that we have for den meetings. Now where big enough for pack meetings. We are now in numbers of 35 - 40 (Depends on how recharter goes) with family members, we need a larger space for pack meetings. OH i forgot to mention, that $50 is if we want to use heat or AC.

 

Our small room has a heater in it. Takes about 20 to 30 minutes to make the room bearable. No AC back there. That is why we had to use the main hall one time and I thought they were going to have a stroke when they found out.

 

Things are just coming to a change and if they are not willing to help, I think we may be able to find a new place to go. That is if we do it right and take our time checking on places to go.

[Basementdweller]

I will disagree that every BSA unit has a commissioner. I have never met a unit commissioner........EVER.

 

I have first hand knowledge of a number of Packs and Troops that believe they can move when ever they please..... One goes thru a CO about every 18 months.

[Lisabob]

I think that moving CO's should be approached with great caution. Sometimes it can be a good thing (and maybe Sctdad's case is an example), but sometimes it is inviting trouble over what would have been a relatively minor thing, otherwise.

 

Maybe the current CO doesn't really want to be terribly involved but does want to have a scouting unit attached to their church as part of their community/youth outreach obligations. In that case, they may be unwilling to simply hand over the existing unit to another church in town. While the other church may indeed be able to provide more and better support, you could be causing friction by making that jump. And anyway, the grass is not always greener, hmm? Just as there is no "perfect" troop or pack, there probably is no "perfect" CO.

 

Be aware that this could also look a lot like poaching! Members of the current CO/Church might wonder why the other church didn't just start their OWN unit, rather than taking a pre-existing one that already had a home. If you are a member of the other church, this counts for double.

 

Moving COs causes a lot of upheaval, work, and time building (sometimes repairing) relationships, even when done under friendly terms. For me - I think the time for a change of COs is when there are major problems, not when you simply see some other group that might be marginally better.

[BS-87]

John-in-KC is absolutely correct. Your DE should have already met with the CO. It sounds like your problems stem from a disconnect between your leadership and your CO's leadership. It may take your DE and Dist. Commish to do this unfortunately. But once everyone at the table has a better understanding of what that piece of paper they sign every year means, you'll hopefully see a positive change. The worst that can happen is your DE and Dist Commish will hear "We're not doing that." But if your CO uses the scouts by name in their fundraisers, they don't hate scouts and they don't hate your boys. That's positive, because that means they want to help, but either have a conflict with your leadership or just don't know how. Right now they may think the only way they can help is by offering a place to meet and a place to store your stuff...

[John-in-KC]

Basementdweller,

 

I suggest you call your DE and ask for your District Commissioner's contact info. THEN, I suggest you call him for a friendly cup of coffee. Ask him to bring along the person assigned your unit as well. You are right, an invisible commissioner is a useless commissioner.

 

I have forgotten, though... Are you cuurently the program guy, CC, or the COR?

[John-in-KC]

SctDad,

 

The HVAC fee is not acceptable. The obligation is there. Your Chartered Partner needs to live up to obligations. I will defer to folks like Beavah on the nature of the charter relationship between Council and partner, but it is more than an informal hanshake.

[SeattlePioneer]

I am Cubmaster for a unit chartered by a Catholic parish. I am not a church member ans only two of our ten Cub Scouts are at this point.

 

I've worked at recruiting Cub Scouts from the parish school, but our retention rate has been poor. I lost our Committee Chair and Tiger Cub Den leader who were both church members this year.

 

I've talked with the institutional head of the church about being more of a part of the parish community. This past year that amounted to having Scouts recognized at Scout Sunday during a church service.

 

Still, I don't blame the chartered organization. They have their own responsibilities and problems. It's really up to us to find ways and means to become more a part of the parish and win greater recognition and support within the parish.

 

As a matter of fact, I'm considering asking our parent committee about making a $25 donation to the parish in support of THEIR good works.

 

There may be reasons for moving a program to a different chartered organization sometimes. But I think many units could do a better job of being a part of and supporting their CO rather than always expecting the CO to be doing for them.

 

Are we doing all we might to support our Chatered Organizations?