SM Wants to Solicit Business at Meeting

[BklynEagle]

Our SM recently started his own business, focusing on ways to make places "green", through solar panels, reinsulation, etc. He's been decidedly aggressive in trying to get the other troop leaders to provide him with business, to a point that gets beyond comfort levels, and has met with limited success. I heard through the grapevine that he plans on giving a talk to the Scouts at our next meeting about the services he provides, and will finish up by giving the Scouts forms to take home to their parents which advertise what he does and how they can sign on for it. Now, as I said before, he gets very aggressive with other adults, so I'm more than a bit concerned about how he's going to present this to a group of young boys. It seems to me that there must be some sort of policy against a leader trying to solicit business from the Scouts and their families in the context of a Scout meeting, but I can't find anything concrete. Given the in-house politics of the troop, I can't go in with just the gut-feeling that this is of a questionable ethical nature - I need hard documentation to back me up if, in fact, I am correct about this.

 

Thank you in advance for your replies.

 

BklynEagle

[clemlaw]

Well, I agree with you that it doesn't pass the smell test.

 

I'm sure there are other rules that would be violated, but the first one I can think of is that the BSA uniform is not to be worn while selling any commercial product. So at the very minimum, if he wants to make this presentation at a meeting, he'll need to wear civilian clothes that night.

 

I'm guessing that he'll argue that he's a world class expert on the subject, which may or may not be true, and that he simply wants to share his knowledge, and not sell his products. If that's the case, then he won't have any objection to handing out advertising from his competitors, rather than his own. I wouldn't object if he did that.

 

Even if there's not an actual problem, it certainly has the appearance of impropriety, and he should avoid doing this. For example, a few weeks ago, I sent out an e-mail to my Tiger parents, and I mentioned a certain book, and gave a link to it on Amazon. I have a website where I earn a few pennies a month by getting commissions when people click on my Amazon links. It would have been very easy to put the link in my e-mail so that I would have earned a commission if someone bought the book. It wouldn't have cost the buyer anything.

 

But IMHO, that wouldn't pass the smell test. I sent them the link because the book was interesting, and I didn't want even the appearance that I sent the link so that I could make a few cents off it.

 

 

[shortridge]

Don't know that there's a policy against it, but it's not right.

 

Would you allow other businesses to take over part of your troop or patrol meetings to pitch products to Scouts and their families? Are you prepared to turn your meetings into an hour-long commercial?

 

Those are the questions your CC and COR need to be asking and informing the SM about the answer.

[SSScout]

I know of no "policy" to invoke here (perhaps the uniform vs commercial enterprise mentioned above), however, I think someone might remind your SM of a few things...

 

At our home Troop, everybody knows what everyone does for provender and roof. I retired from the transit agency. An Eagle candidate was glad to have my connections when he proposed rebuilding a neglected bus terminal. One of the ASMs is a contractor. We have spoken many times about my little home projects, materials, methods, he has been very forthcoming with his knowledge and experience. If I asked him, I am sure he would build me a great deck, addition or barn. Has he asked me ? No. Would I ask him if I thought I needed his talent? Absolutely. Another man is a financial planner/broker. We have talked about the economic atmosphere. Has he asked me if he could help me? No. Would I trust him? No doubt.

There is a level of social discourse that invites business and one that discourages it. There is OFFERING and then there is ANNOYING. One engenders business, the other does not.

 

Here's an idea:

Take Mr. SM aside and ask if he is willing to have someone sign up as the Environmental Science Merit Badge Counselor. Do a Troop "class" in that vein. Invite other insulation contractors, etc. to come in and make presentation to the boys about their work, how it saves energy, prevents global warming and so forth. Then, Mr. SM can bring in his special tools (infra red detector, solar cells, wind turbine, whatever ) and just be one of the presenters. Or can he stand the competition?

 

Point out to this well meaning SM that everybody knows about his business/expertise, but too much reminding can be a BAD thing.

 

 

[Crew21_Adv]

BklynEagle,

 

 

Greetings!

 

There really is not a rule that covers this. Even selling commercial products in uniform, actually comes from the backside of the Money Earning Project Application.

 

Its only a action of bad taste or tact.

 

For Example. Similar to myself running for a political position in the town or state, but campaigning during the Scoutmasters minute. I could be the best person for Governor, but the boys are not really signed up as Scouts to learn about my policies and campaign platform.

 

I don't see any harm done. Rather than a waste of time and bad taste directing a sales pitch towards the wrong audience.

 

Now... on the flip side. You have said, you've heard it thru the "grapevine". Rumors are rarely a valid way to pass information, most of the time they are opinion-based and damaging. We really don't know what the Scoutmaster will say during the next meeting. Perhaps he/she may discuss Environmental Science or Soil and Water Conservation, or even Leave No Trace, because the Scoutmaster works in that profession (as asked on the Merit Badge Counselor Information form; vocation, avocation, special training).

 

So, probably holding a regular PLC and/or regular committee meeting, to find out what the monthly and weekly agenda will be. Also, the PLC should have possible lesson plan (or troop program features) so the parents and committee would satisfy any concerns.

 

Good Luck!

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

[Abel Magwitch]

Sounds like the council should sign this guy up to run the council's FOS drive.

 

This SM will soon be chasing away all the parents (and Scouts) from the troop.

 

I'm with shortridge on this one - time to speak to the cor and institutional head. They alone have say in what they allow or don't allow within thier building. The chartered institution owns the unit.(This message has been edited by abel magwitch)

[frank10]

Oh my head, I'm having flash backs of a SM trying to sign us all up to sell Amway...

If I put my hands on the window I can feel the pane.

[JFL49]

The insignia guide, which refers to BSA Rule and Regulations seems to cover this issue:

 

QUOTE

Use of Uniforms

Clause 6. The official uniforms are intended primarily for use in connection with Scouting activities as defined by the national Executive Board, and their use may be approved by the local council executive board for council events or activities under conditions consistent with the Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America.

UNQUOTE

 

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/InsigniaGuide/02.aspx

 

It would not seem that soliciting personal business is a "Scouting activity" envisioned by the national Executive Board.

[Crossramwedge]

I am a COR and if this situation came up I would put a stop to it immediately. You let him get away with this it will be setting a precedent where other adults in the troop may want time to promote their personal interest also. Troop meetings are not meant to be hijacked and used as a platform for promoting ones commercial business interest. He should not be allowed to pass out flyers or promote his business at a BSA troop meeting in any way shape or form. Contact your COR and CC and make sure they are aware of the situation. If they know about it and are not willing to step in and stop it then you really do not have anyone else to turn to.

[ScoutBox]

Bad idea, bad taste, and no place at a meeting.. If the guy wants to do that, then buy commercial time..

[Scoutfish]

"He's been decidedly aggressive in trying to get the other troop leaders to provide him with business, to a point that gets beyond comfort levels, and has met with limited success. I heard through the grapevine that he plans on giving a talk to the Scouts at our next meeting about the services he provides, and will finish up by giving the Scouts forms to take home to their parents which advertise what he does and how they can sign on for it."

 

Okay, I am only a Cub Master in CUB scouts, so I do not have any practical experience in te running of a troop meeting.

 

BUT...I do know that scout meetings are supposed to be about scout stuff.

I also know it is one of the duties of a Scout Master to help develop,lead, or direct a good SCOUT PROGRAM for the troop and the boys.

 

A SCOUT PROGRAM. Not a sales pitch, infomercial type meeting or a buisness recruiting drive.

 

Personally, as both a scout and as a parent, I'd be pretty PO'd to be wasting all my time as a scout, wasting all the money I'vre tied up in uniforms, trips to and from trhe CO, trips to and from any camping, council events, district event, expenses, time for projects and any other efoort ...to just sit and here a "supposed" scout leader give me a sales pitch about his buisness and expect me to drum up more buisness for him.

 

 

 

SCOUTMASTER

 

Job Description:

 

The Scoutmaster is the adult leader responsible for the image and program of the troop. The Scoutmaster works directly with the Scouts. The importance of the Scoutmaster's job is reflected in the fact that the quality of guidance will affect every youth and adult involved in the troop.

 

 

 

Scoutmaster Duties:

 

Train and guide junior leaders

Use the Methods of Scouting to achieve the Aims of Scouting

Work with responsible adults to bring Scouting to boys

Meet regularly with the Patrol Leaders' Council (PLC) for training and coordination in planning troop activities

Attend all troop meetings or when necessary arrange for a qualified adult substitute

Attend troop committee meetings

Conduct periodic parent meetings to share the program and encourage parent participation and cooperation

Take part in annual membership inventory and uniform inspection, charter review meeting, and charter presentation, and annual troop budget planning

Conduct Scoutmaster conferences for all rank advancements

Provide a systematic recruiting plan for new members and see that they are promptly registered

Delegate responsibility to other adults and groups (assistants, troop committee) so that they have a real part in troop operations

Supervise troop elections

Make it possible for each Scout to experience at least 10 days and nights of camping each year

Participate in Council and District events

Build a strong program by using proven methods presented in Scouting literature

Conduct all activities under qualified leadership, safe conditions, and policies.

 

 

If the man wants to take a minute or two during down time or at the end of a meeting and say:

 

"Hey, here are some of my buisness cards, pass them out IF you know somebody who might be interested".

 

Then I wouldn't have an issue with it.

 

But if he sees the troop meetings as a place to conduct buisness INSTEAD of scout related stuff....

then face it, he is failing his duties as a Scout Master to both the troop and to the boys. For the good of the troop, he should be removed at once!

[Scoutfish]

I don't know why, but this particular event has REALLY gotten under my skin. It's been bugging me since i read it.

 

So I did some digging..sorta.

 

I am a CUB Scout leader( CM ) instead of a BOY scout leader , so the reference materials are not quite the same.

 

 

BUT.....in the CUB Scout Leader Book (#33221D) - Under "Policies of Cub Scouting - Section 8/ page 2 - and under the subject of

"COMMERCIALISM" :

 

 

" *No BSA member, unit, or local council may enter into a contract or relationship of a commercial nature involving the BSA unless duly authorized to do so by the National Executive Board."

 

 

"*No local council or unit may enter into a contract or business relationship with a business, corporation,commercial agency or INDIVIDUAL ( emphasis mine) that could be construed as using the scouting movement toconduct busines, sell or GIVE ENDORSEMENT ( emphasis mine again) for comercial purposes."

 

 

Then it says the policy doesn't apply to scouts earning their own money for scouting related equipment as long as it's real work and not just using the BSA name for personal reasons.

 

 

Again, I'm only a Cub Master uin CUB Scouts, but I am assuming that BOY Scouts has a similar book with similar if not the exact same policies?

[hotdesk]

Forget policies...I'm disappointed that this guy doesn't see it as inappropriate on his own. He is suppose to be a mentor, role model, and positive leader for the boys he works with.

 

I would be surprised, if as many already noted, a meeting between the CC and/or COR and the SM didn't take care of the issue!

 

Again, highly disappointed in this fellow. It's a shame that the economy has gotten so bad that he feels this is necessary!