Need References

[Eagle92]

John,

MBCs are still considered District members and do not appear on unit charters as such. However they can request limit scouts they will work with to a troop.

[John-in-KC]

"A Scoutmaster has to approve a MB before it's awarded."

 

That, Sir, is utterly FALSE.

 

He approves the start: See Requirements, #33215 (year), or the National website (which is Requirments in webpage format):

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/MeritBadges.aspx

"Pick a Subject. Talk to your Scoutmaster about your interests. Read the requirements of the merit badges you think might interest you. Pick one to earn. Your Scoutmaster will give you the name of a person from a list of counselors. (emphasis added) These counselors have special knowledge in their merit badge subjects and are interested in helping you.

 

Get the Badge. When the counselor is satisfied that you have met each requirement, he or she will sign your application. Give the signed application to your Scoutmaster so that your merit badge emblem can be secured for you.

 

There is not one word saying the Scoutmaster approves the merit badge on receipt. Indeed, ACP&P #33088 explicitly says:

 

"A merit badge cannot be taken away once it has been earned, provided the counselor is a registered counselor for the badge.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[John-in-KC]

E92,

 

Agreed. That does not make it best practice, though.

 

 

In my District, I work for the Advancement Chair as his new MB counselor trainer. I actively discourage new MB Counselors from being "Troop Only." When SMs pass through my training, I encourage them to know folks around the District, to give themselves a broader pool of counselors.

[moosetracker]

Yeah, I also question those MBC's who register to teach 40-50 Merit Badges "Troop Only".. Even when not "Troop Only".. Unless this person is the do-all know-it-all NO ONE can be proficient enough to know all those subjects, you kind-of question what the scouts in that troop are getting out of those MB that they learn from this one person.. Plus the scouts loose the chance to go out and work with many new people..

 

I can see why districts or Councils do set a limit.

[momof7scouts]

Thank you for your replies. The issues I mention I have been able to get through with my own sons, two are Eagles, one is working on his project at this moment, one is a life, and one is a star. I have done but two merit badges total out of the over 150 combined my scouts have earned. It is other boys, new scouts, who are having problems. It is hard for me to watch these new scouts going through what mine did. Boy after boy comes to meetings with his scout book after a camp, asking for sign offs. No one can or will do it.

We have many events where one ASM attends with a few YPT trained committee parents. The ASM's son, then, does not get any of the sign offs for the the things covered. This has been a problem.

We also have a new scout master who is often unavailable due to his work schedule and other commitments. This has made it difficult for any scout over 1st class to progress in a timely manner. My second son could have earned a fourth palm if the scout master had been able to meet with him for SM conferences more quickly. He will not do conferences during meetings, which, is fine but only on Sundays when he is free. I believe all of these things are at his discretion, but I see some very frustrated higher ranking scouts.

The "single" item issue on the merit badges comes from scouts who attend a camp or merit badge college and come back with a blue card missing one requirement.

For some reason that I have never understood, our troop prefers the scouts to use merit badge councilors from the troop. It is frowned upon to go outside our own list with the exceptions of merit badge colleges and camps.

 

[Beavah]

For some reason that I have never understood, our troop prefers the scouts to use merit badge councilors from the troop. It is frowned upon to go outside our own list with the exceptions of merit badge colleges and camps.

 

Some units have that as a CO restriction, because the CO has stricter requirements for background checks or youth protection training than the BSA does.

 

In other units, the SM doesn't use outside counselors where he or she can't guarantee the quality of the boy's experience. Yeh will even see some good SM who prohibit boys from taking First Aid or a badge like Citizenship in the Community at summer camp, because da quality is often poor.

 

In still other areas, the district doesn't have a good merit badge counselor list, and the SM got tired of sending lads off to meet with dead people.

 

Most of what you describe as problems seems like it is just the product of adults having busy lives. That's pretty common, especially in this economy.

 

In da modern world, kids get pretty used to adults being at their beck and call, eh? Getting adult attention "on demand." A scout troop teaching that yeh have to make an appointment to meet with the SM on Sunday a few weeks in advance seems like a reasonable thing to teach good life skills and courtesy. Though it's a bit counter-cultural, fer sure.

 

Only thing that seems like a program weakness is da bit about "The ASM's son, then, does not get any of the sign offs for the the things covered." Why are things being "covered" on an outing? Scout skills are things that are supposed to be learned, and then tested. Most can be learned or tested on any outing. If not this month, then next month, or next meeting. If the ASM is conducting "advancement classes" on an outing to "cover" some requirement, then I reckon da problem isn't that his boy can't get signed off, the problem is that he's signing the rest of the boys off for sittin' in a class that "covered" a topic.

 

Scouting is about running, jumping, playing, and turnin' trees into their component molecules. Yeh learn it, yeh do it a bunch, and yeh get signed off when yeh get good at it (and your former tree adds to the atmospheric CO2 problem) . Leave off the "covering" bit.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Eagle92]

John,

 

I also don't the practice as it can be abused. One thing that may put a damper on it is YPT is now required.

[momof7scouts]

Well, I guess I will just sit back and see what happens here. It is not I that is having the issues with the troop but three sets of new parents. While I understand their frustrations, it took my youngest boy 18 months to reach 1st class even though he attended every single meeting and every single camp out, and actually completed the requirements in about 8 months because he could not get anyone to sign off in his book. But, that is all in the past for me since he is now a Star and moving just fine toward Life.

However, the three sets of parents are pushing very hard to get everything signed off immediately, or else. Two were even permitted to have two scout master conferences and BoRs in a single meeting because the parents were so aggressive, even though the official written troop policy has been one per meeting. Never before has a boy made two ranks in one night. They want their boys to make Star by February, at their one year in troop date.

One of the boys, he just turned 11, has only been in the troop for seven months and has earned three merit badges with his parents. In trying to talk to them, they get very aggressive, pull out the Advancement Guide, and argue at the meetings.

Now they have joined forces and are trying to take over committee chair, advancement chair, and the merit badge program. They also threaten to go to district every time their boys are denied something.

Currently, the SM is withholding a merit badge from one of the boys. It is orienteering and the boy supposedly completed the entire merit badge in a one hour merit badge session at a merit badge college. His parents are livid.

I am not going to get involved, I was just curious where all the rules are written on these topics. As I said, my boys have passed these issues, for the most part, and I just want to continue teaching at the merit badge colleges and having a good time with the scouts.

[ScoutNut]

There is no way that Orienteering can be earned in one hour. Did the boys do any prep work before the class (like do the 3 orienteering events)?

 

You stated that you teach at the merit badge colleges. How was this class set up? Can the MBC be contacted to find out if he/she actually did sign off on the entire badge?

[perdidochas]

John,

 

What is the unit leader's signature on the Applicants record, if not an approval by the Unit Leader?

[moosetracker]

Momof7 - This is not a group of parent you should advocate for.. They are trying to put your troop in Cub Scout mode.. In fact I would sit on the side of the committee that would make sure they do not come to power in positions that will make your troop turn for the worse.. You may have small issues.. You will have large issues if the place becomes a meritbadge mill. Your Life & Star son will be forced to treat other Life/star rank boys who don't know their basic scouting skills as if they were equals, rather then as if they are scouts who need to learn what they don't know..

 

Teaching new scouts scout craft is one thing.. Having scouts who don't know their basic skills (Who think they do because they were shown it in 5 min by mom & dad).. Will cause scouts with no knowledge in leadership position so they can lead the troop off the cliff or deep into the woods to get lost.. This will frustrate your sons..

[momof7scouts]

Well, that's why I wanted the BSA guidelines. There have been issues in the past with the troop, especially on Eagle projects, making things far more difficult than they should be. While I empathize with one part, the boys showing up after completing advancement skills and not being able to get things signed off for months and the unavailability of the SM in general, I am concerned with the sudden push of these parents. It is like they are campaigning their sons.

The only one standing up to them currently is the chartered org. rep and one ASM, no one else wants to make waves. The progress of these boys has been amazing, over 20 merit badges each, including many Eagle required, as well as making four ranks, in a matter of months. I am not talking fingerprinting and leather working but all three citizenship, orienteering, family life, personal management, communication (also done in a single merit badge college session). Any prerequisites completed have been signed off by....the parents.

According to one parent who has a copy of the Advancement Chair Guidelines, if a boy has the blue card signed by the MB councilor, the SM must award the badge. So the boy shows up with a partially filled blue card, signed by the parent, and the MB councilor at the MB college assumes it is legit and signs off the rest of the blue card.

(When I teach at MB colleges, they have to bring proof to me that they did it, not just a signed blue card or I will just sign a new one for what I teach and let their troops decide if the first is legit.)

Any questioning of the parents' signature is met with indignation, "How dare you question my integrity!" and threats appealing to district and council.

 

[Rockford8070]

I'd tell them to go ahead and go to district. However, I'd make sure your district staff has a heads up.

[Eagle92]

Did the SM sign the blue card approving the Scout to go to that councilor? No SM Signature, no MB as he has to apporve it prior to going.

 

Now if there is a SM signature, then he has to accept it. Once signed it by the SM prior to going to the MBC, the SM is out of the picture.

 

As for the number of MBs they have earned, something smells fishy.

 

Another reason why I want time requirements back for the T-2-1 ranks.

[OldGreyEagle]

"official written troop policy has been one per meeting"

 

Which is why offical written troop policy is not worth the paper its written on. That paper could have been functional and been a paper airplane rather then sitting useless.

 

OK, now that this policy has been ignored, what does that tell you about the rest of the troop policies? If they are not in keeping with the BSA, then they have no reason to exist. I can imagine a few 14 and 15 year old mad as hell that that young kid got two BORs in one night when I was told I couldnt. What did those older youths learn? That the adults running the show are capricious and arbitraily and if you have a strong and obnoxious advocate it trumps following the rules.

 

BSA will be gone in 20 years, too many morons in the bushes