Dont forget the Advancement Commitee Chair

[Stosh]

Twocubdad,

 

I have to respectfully disagree with you. I have had many thank you's expressed by the adults at COH's, Roundtables, District Dinners, WB Dinners, etc., but they all pale when the boys pin their mentor pins on my uniform. There is no Silver Beaver that is going to mean as much to me as those pins. It truly is just for the boys that I put the uniform on week after week and head out to the events.

 

Stosh

[qwazse]

My crew does not have an Advancement Chair. (Okay, it would be technically a Regognition chair, but I'm making a point.) Guess how many awards I've given out in 4 years? None zip zero null. Partly that's because the kids tell me it doesn't matter, but partly it's because my committee has yet to pull together and divy up responsibilities.

 

The good news is that my co-advisor and I don't have anyone telling us how to do our job. We don't need fundraisers to pay for medals, etc ....

 

Not sure if that's a zero sum, because although the independence has allowed me to stay productive as an advisor and kids keep coming through the door, I'm missing seeing my presidents dole out some bling.

 

So be it at our COH or at a committee meeting - if we ever have one, I'll lift my mug to the advancement chair.

[Twocubdad]

I don't understand where we are in disagreement, Stosh. I think your example supports my point.

 

It is wholly acceptable for an Eagle Scout to take a few minutes from his Court of Honor to present a Mentor pin and express his appreciation to someone who has supported him. It is no less appropriate for the troop as a whole to do the same.

 

As with anything, that should be youth-driven. But if not we're there to train and coach the boys toward doing the right thing.

 

Look, I, too, have sat through these stupid plaque trading sessions. I can think of no greater waste of time than the annual district banquet. But there is a difference between a bunch of adults keeping the local awards shop in business and teaching the Scouts to be aware of the people who have helped them get where they are and taking the time to acknowledge their efforts.

 

It's the fifth point of the Scout Law. How is this not a good thing?

[Eagledad]

Our scouts pick two adults each month and put big writeups about them in the troop newsletter along with a nice gift from the scout office. That saves the COH and makes the newsletter more interesting.

 

I certainly understand the committee chairs frustration, however most would be surprised to just how difficult it can be remembering to recognize everyone who feels they need to be recognized. Forgetting a scout when I was CM was a big fear for me. And it happen a lot with 120 cubs. I ran into a friend whose husband is a SM and was a den leader herself a few years earlier when I was CM. She appologized for all the late night calls to me when I was CM. She now understood just how many calls a CM and SM get from folks for those things they might have forgotten the night before.

 

My suggestion for eng is a little forgiveness and a quiet humble way of helping the SM next time. I am pretty

sure the SM meant no offense and does appreciate the advancement chairs hard work.

 

I love this scouting stuff.

 

Barry

[Stosh]

In a sense, you are right, it shouldn't make any difference, but for some of us, it does. That's the point of "disagreement". Yes, we are in the business of teaching our boys, but the core reason I do what I do is not to seek recognition for it. My WB beads showed up in the mail one day, my Outstanding Leader Award was given to me after being kicked around some guy's pickup truck for 6 months and he finally caught up to me at a camporee. It didn't bother me at all.

 

I don't have enough wall space at home to put up all the junk I have gotten, but I can always find a good place for my mentor pins. So, yes, it does make a difference, a big difference to me.

 

There are those that do need the expressions of appreciation to know that their efforts are worthwhile and for them, I can't find a plaque big enough to express my appreciation to them. If I know my ASM would really appreciate going on a certain event with the boys, I can always find an excuse to not go, i.e. Philmont is limited to two adults, etc. I've been there, and it would be a treat for them to get a chance. And that's how I prefer to do things.

 

If I thought that having them stand up at a COH and get some applause was enough, I'd buy into the recognition program. But if I finagled them into a canoe trip, or week at summer camp with their son(s) that might speak more volumes of appreciation than a plaque. How appreciation is expressed is often times as important than the appreciation itself. I don't do the public thingy very often, but the leadership with me know exactly how much I appreciate them every step of the way.

 

I'll meet you half way on it. It shouldn't make a difference, but for some it does, both ways. Some don't want the recognition, some do, some do it for the knots, patches and beads, others do it for the boys. To thank everyone the same would be praise to one and ho-hum to another.

 

A scout is courteous... not a problem, it's a lesson that should be taught and all adults should lead by example.

 

Stosh

[JMHawkins]

Beavah: "To my mind the only time a COH should honor an adult is when the youth unanimously agree. Somethin' like a brief thing at the end of the CoH to say goodbye to the SM of 50 years who is retiring. "

 

Engineer61: "I think CoH is the perfect time for the Scouts to recognize and show appreciation for the adults that make Scouting possible. No adults...no scouting."

 

There's some common ground - the Scouts recognizing the adults. I guess the difference is whether it's unanimous or a simple majority, but I think that as long as it's the Scouts making the decision who to honor, how to honor them, how much time to spend on it, etc., then it's probably okay. Just want to avoid the adults standing up and congratulating each other on being such fine fellows while the scouts get bored....

 

(if Kudu is around, he might chime in with a "leave that for Woodbadge reunions" comment)

 

"...but don't exclude anyone if you do... "

 

Leave it up to the Scouts and they probalby will do this once in a while. Good lesson for them on recognition, the advantages and pitfalls of it. Not to mention some practical experience in handing out awards. You can hand 'em out to everyone, in which case the impact is positive but a little wattered down; you can have a crisp set of criteria for who gets em and who doesn't, in which case you promote certain behaviors (and did you think through what those really are?); or you can hand em out haphazardly and tick off a bunch of people, turning what should be a morale booster into a morale drainer. Tricky stuff, raise your hands if you ever wished your employer understood this better!

 

 

 

 

[Stosh]

Get real people, a SM who has invested 50 years in a troop deserves more than a 5 minute thank you at the end of some COH!

 

This is a time to invite back every scout that ever had the opportunity to be in the troop, an honor guard of his/her eagle scouts and at least a potluck dinner!

 

It would mean more to him/her than a plaque on the wall and a handshake.

 

 

Stosh

[Twocubdad]

Yeah, Roger that.

 

And maybe I can meet you the other half of the way, Stosh, and note that it's not about the bling. When our old SM of thirty something years retired, we gave him a plaque, but it was a permanent plaque to stay in the hut, not to go in the box at his house.

 

To say I also have a stack of plaques would suggest that I care enough about them to keep them in a stack. I don't. Plaques are about the dumbest thing you can give someone. I think the real purpose of a plaque is to give the person making the presentation something to do with his hands while he's standing there. If you don't know how to offer a thoughtful work of thanks and express your appreciation to someone, give them a plaque instead.

 

But still, my larger point is that everyone in the program -- Scouts, adult leaders, committee, parents -- need to regularly and sincerely thank the folks who make the program possible. And a cheesy plaque isn't a substitute for a real thank you.

[Stosh]

Twocubdad,

 

Yep, we're on the same page now.

 

I've always thought that a tree planted in my honor would be nice, too. The boys could find a handful of maple/oak seed, plant and see to it that it gets re-planted in a good place somewhere. Then I can always go and visit my tree, sit in its shade and remember all my years in Scouting. But then, that's just me.

 

Stosh

[Jeffrey H]

"Our Advancement Chair puts in 10-15 hours a week...every week, year round...sometimes 30-40 hours in the busy weeks leading up to CoH and Summer Camp...paperwork everywhere, making up for the ASM's that don't turn in paperwork...coordinating with District Council, trips to the Scoutshop."

 

Those are insane hours for volunteer work, especially the 30 to 40 hour part. I would serve notice to the SM, ASM's and Troop Committee for additional help and tell the ASM's get off their "duff" and hold to their responsibilities. If not, the advancements and awards will be delayed and the SM and ASM's will have to answer to the scouts why they did not get their badges and awards on time. Get help from other troop committee members that aren't doing anything but standing around and drinking coffee. Delegate the "scout shop" trips to a responsible adult. You get the idea. The advancement chair has a life also...

[perdidochas]

What size troop do you have that the Advancement Chair works 10-15 (up to 30-40) hrs per week?

 

Are they at all automated? (i.e. Troopmaster or similar program) If not, they should think about it. Troopmaster makes things a lot more convenient and faster, IMHO.

 

I'm Advancement chair for a troop of about 30 scouts (give or take). Besides COH and a monthly advancement report (which take a few hours each), I don't spend time outside of the weekly 1 1/2 hr Troop meeting (and monthly committee meeting).

[BartHumphries]

Do your scouts even know about the Committee, who its members are and what they do? I didn't, when I was a scout. I am changing that situation now, though.

[Jeffrey H]

perdidochas is right. Get Troopmaster or similar program to automate and archive advancement records. I use a sister program called Packmaster for my Pack and it's a great timesaver and it reduces the risk of losing records!

 

I can't see how a person will spend 30-40 hours a week on advancement. It has to manually intensive.

[Engineer61]

Even with Troopmaster, the advancement process is paper intensive....all that paper has to be generated, verified and then entered into Troopmaster.

 

And then you have the issues of missing paperwork, so it doesn't get entered at all...that's the worst part...ASM's and PL's not tracking who did what when amd where then bashing the ACC because something is missing.

 

Our troop is about 100 active Scouts.

 

Far worse than that is that the ACC in our troop also does all the MB scheduling for summer camp...

 

[Lisabob]

If it were me, I'd turn over the MB scheduling to the youth leadership. THere's no reason, except adult controls, why the PLs can't help guide their patrol members' decisions about merit badge selections, and why one of the ASPLs couldn't do the actual data entry/registration/form filing to get the boys signed up with the camp.

 

An aside:

 

I am sure there are troops of 100+ out there who do a fantastic job of being youth-led. On the other hand, the larger the organization, usually the larger the bureaucracy that develops in order to make the organization work. More bureaucracy in scouting almost always means more adults running things. I kind of wonder whether large-scale troops are at a serious disadvantage when it comes to boy leadership?